Latinos Assimilate on Their Own Terms

New America Media ^ | 7/27/2007 | Hiram Soto

[Altura Ct.]

The Senate’s phone system crashed last month during immigration reform debates, when thousands of people and anti-immigrant activists called their senators to protest the legalization of millions of undocumented immigrants.

The massive, unprecedented telephone campaign was sparked by a range of complex motives based on social and economic issues. Among them was a theme that promises to reappear if the issue is revisited: the perception that Latinos are too different to assimilate, do not learn English, and are unraveling the fabric of the identity of a nation that was, ironically, created by immigrants.

“It is one of the ideas that anti-immigrant forces take advantage of: the notion that immigrants today do not assimilate and that other generations did. But it is not true,” says Cecilia Muñoz of the National Council of La Raza.

In fact, both sides are right.

Latinos are assimilating, but in their own way, keeping much of their identity. Tamales at Christmas. Turkey and menudo at Thanksgiving. English at work and Spanish at home. Dual loyalties to the San Diego Chargers and Guadalajara Chivas. The Fourth of July. Cinco de Mayo.

“Latinos are ending the concept of the proverbial racial salad,” wrote renowned journalist and writer Jorge Ramos in his book, “The Latino Wave: How Hispanics Are Transforming Politics in America.”

The big difference between European and Latino immigrants, according to Ramos and some sociologists, is that Hispanics live next to their countries of origin, allowing them to maintain ties with their family, culture and language.

In addition, there exists today an extensive network of Spanish-language media.

“Culturally, Latinos are never going to totally assimilate. Latinos are creating their own space in this country. And the characteristics of Hispanic culture are changing forever the face of the nation,” Ramos wrote.

This phenomenon plays out each day in the home of Cristóbal Castro, a naturalized U.S. citizen and son of a “bracero” who migrated to the United States in the middle of the last century to work.

“It is going to be very difficult to assimilate, at least for the first generation. What there is is a negotiation,” he said. “There will be things that we accept, like the manner of dress or the education here, and things that we don’t, like kicking your children out of the house when they turn 18, like ‘gringos’ do.”

Latinos’ tendency to cling onto their culture has led them to gradually redefine the American identity.

Assimilation, according to Tomás Jiménez, a sociology professor at the University of California, San Diego, “no longer means you have to disown your culture and adopt a new lifestyle identified with Anglo-Protestant culture.”

In an essay published in the Los Angeles Times, Jiménez said that due to Latinos, “multiculturalism and the appreciation of diversity are much more accepted than before.”

Defining assimilation is as complex as reforming immigration laws.

Can you speak Spanish and be assimilated? Do you have to like hamburgers more than grilled steak tacos? When can you say you have achieved assimilation?

“It is not easy to define,” confessed Ira Mehlman of the anti-immigrant organization FAIR (Federation for American Immigration Reform). Many Americans resent the fact that Hispanics insist on speaking Spanish and maintaining ties with their countries of origin, he said.

“But I would say that (assimilation) is when someone feels American,” he said. “And to me, people that march, yelling, ‘Nosotros somos América’ (We are America), waving the flags of other countries, are not assimilated.”

Richard Rodríguez, a writer who has published various books about the adaptation of Latinos to U.S. culture, said that assimilating is absorbing the individuality of the United States, and that this is precisely what Hispanics are doing.

“The reality is that the country is becoming more Mexican, and that everything is changing, our food, customs, music and religion,” Rodríguez said. “As Latinos continue incorporating themselves into society, Americans feel they have to learn fragments of Spanish. And there will be weddings, hatred, friendship, solidarity, curiosity and competition.”

What’s certain is that many Latinos live with one foot in each culture, and that they flow like water from one side to the other, something you can see each time the Mexican national soccer team faces the United States in the fiercest sporting rivalry in North America.

Ricardo Castro, brother of Cristóbal and also a naturalized U.S. citizen, said he considers himself 100 percent Mexican. But he could sit and watch the soccer game calmly, he said, because he had no fear of losing.

“I knew that my country was going to win,” he said. “And effectively it won, because for me it was either of the two.”

[Mamzelle]

re: “There will be things that we accept, like the manner of dress or the education here, and things that we don’t, like kicking your children out of the house when they turn 18, like ‘gringos’ do.”)))

What an amazing accusation, considering the high drop-out rate for Hispanic boys in our high schools...

[norton]

Latinos are ending the concept of the proverbial racial salad,” wrote renowned journalist and writer Jorge Ramos..."

Its 'melting pot', not 'salad' - dumb-ass!

"The big difference between European and Latino immigrants...is that Hispanics live next to their countries of origin, allowing them to maintain ties with their family, culture and language."

No, mexicans live next door - that does not give them the right to speak for all 'hispanics' and 'latinos' despite the fact that our government seems to believe otherwise.

"Culturally, Latinos are never going to totally assimilate. Latinos are creating their own space in this country. And the characteristics of Hispanic culture are changing forever the face of the nation,”

That can and should be remedied - very quickly.

“It is going to be very difficult to assimilate, at least for the first generation. What there is is a negotiation,” he said. “There will be things that we accept, like the manner of dress or the education here, and things that we don’t, like kicking your children out of the house when they turn 18, like ‘gringos’ do.”

"Gringo"? Does that mean I can refer to senor Castro as an arrogant and self absorbed wet back?

[Regulator]

Dr Agapito Lopez, Hazelton, PA

I saw that guy on the tube.

What a nauseating bigot, with a room temperature IQ.

He's a doctor....of what? Medical school in Jamaica? "Latino Studies" at North State Community College of the Internet?

Guys like him who make hispanic societies what they are: grotesque failures.

[oldenuff2no]

Not to mention the habit of marrying off their daughters at a very young age!!!!!

[Regulator]

"Gringo"? Does that mean I can refer to senor Castro as an arrogant and self absorbed wet back?

Why no, there's a far more vicious term for hispanics ( consists of truncating that word ) which of course, you are not allowed to use, lest you be arrested for "hate speech" or banned from this forum.

The term "gringo" or "gabacho" carrries just as much weight in their culture, but of course they are allowed to use it against you, since you are part of an evil culture which is guilty of...of...of creating the highest standard of living for the largest number of people in all of human history.

Aren't you ashamed of yourself?!

And they of course are responsible for creating sick, diseased, desperate and ugly societies with the grossest of inequalities, so of course they are much higher than you or I in social status and therefore have the right to spew any sort of vicious venom they feel like in any language without recourse.

Now you know the rules.

[hinckley buzzard]

Boy are we in trouble.

[stephenjohnbanker]

“Love the ‘anti-immigrant’ smear they have in the first line.
It would be correct to say ‘anti-ILLEGAL’ instead, or “Pro-LAWFUL immigration”.”

Exactly Darks!

BUMP

[stephenjohnbanker]

“They don’t learn the language , they don’t follow our laws and like Lopez warned or threatened they will NEVER assimilate.”

EXACTLY!

[stephenjohnbanker]

“Boy are we in trouble.”

Nah.....this Administration is in trouble....we are just fine!

[mthom]

I couldnt disagree more. This is the most honest article Ive seen concerning the lack of “assimilation” among hispanics. You know they feel they have won when they write articles like this.

[mthom]

If we can just get rid of us gringos and import more mexicans then what a hard working moral country wed be.

[dennisw]

How many Nobel Prizes are won by Hispanics/Spanish? I’m talking about the science and economics prizes, not the Nobel Peace prize and Literature Prize.

It seems that Latinos don’t invent much. They use what others invent

[Melas]

You latinos can set the terms in mehico, not here. Here is our terms, get the hell out or we shall toss your asses out.

Well, obviously your vitriol is directed towards Latino's in general without regard to citizenship or country of origin, but who the hell is "we" in the above? I'm hoping it's a mouse in your pocket.

[Regulator]

How many Nobel Prizes are won by Hispanics/Spanish?

Think the most well known guy was Luis Alvarez, who was at UC Berkeley and worked on the Manhattan project.

It's a long and complex subject, I think, which would involve both discussions of culture and genetics, and would undoubtedly end up being controversial.

But Spaniards are Europeans, and share a great deal of genetics with Britons, Irish, Welsh, and Bretons, i.e. Celts.

So with that in mind you could certainly compare achievment on cultural norms, not genetic. And in that case they come up short. But did not in the past...I mean, 6 centuries ago.

It's my un-scientific opinion that the ruthless nature of hispanic culture, which is an artifact of Roman tyranny and later Islamic / Arab regressive cultures, is what killed the intellectual aspect of hispanic society.

IOW, why invent / create when you can just rob / rape?

The history of Latin America is vivid evidence of that.

Mexican "culture" takes it a step further, and parodies intellectuals in crude, lurid caricatures.

If you're a smart kid in Mexico, you don't hit the books. You hit the street, where you end up as the Patron.

A guy who went through engineering school with me was one of the smartest we had. Quiet, worked hard, got straight A's.

But the undercurrent was there with him, too. He always talked about "beeg men" who ruled everything. He had sort of a fatalistic outlook, like nothing he could do was ever going to change anything that much.

In his culture/society, that was true. Last I heard he got a PhD and was teaching in Texas. Always felt like it was a loss, because if he could've been "de-programmed" (de-hispanicised? Assimilated?) he would have done far more.

[AmericanInTokyo]

Wow. You have an excellent handle on what the Japanese would call the “ura no ura no ura”, our below the surface of what is below the surface. You have great intel on the idiosyncracies of hispanic pop and mass culture at large...and what it has exported to the United States in great numbers.

[dennisw]

It's my un-scientific opinion that the ruthless nature of hispanic culture, which is an artifact of Roman tyranny and later Islamic / Arab regressive cultures, is what killed the intellectual aspect of hispanic society.

Yeah a lot of bad Muslim stuff rubbed off on them. Freeper Caique is from Argentina and had admitted a lot of the conquistador mentality came from the Muslim occupation of Spain. The conquistadors came here to loot and plunder for silver and gold. For the greater glory of Espana and the Pope. The English (Anglo) way was to come here and achieve wealth though sober industry. One of the first major industries was to make iron. There were great virgin forests to stoke the furnaces with. And rivers for transport. The Spanish were doing nothing like that

[Clemenza]

"Segmented assimilation" is nothing new. Blacks, Chinese, Koreans, etc. have assimilated while remaining distinct groups.

I don't exactly see white folks rushing out to intermarry or bring Central Americans into the fold either.

In New York, New Jersey, Florida, and Illinois, the second generation speaks English (and Spanish, largely to their parents), root for the local teams, and listen to crappy American music.

Being an "American" does not mean acting like Ward Cleaver. Besides, if you are on the lower/lower middle strata of society, the only "white" portion of society that would be available to you would be redneck culture, something alot of white folks don't exactly aspire to either.

The first generation NEVER fully assimilates, unless they are the only one in their community, and even then, it is difficult. The second generation adapts to America, and in doing so, changes it as much as it changes them.

[Regulator]

and what it has exported to the United States in great numbers

And that's the part that scares the crap out of me.

Our now decadent, egalitarian, abstract culture will be no match for the onslaught of the relentless "take it from them if you can" attitude of the un-civilized.

Unless we rationalize our way to defending ourselves. Something we used to have no problem with.

[Polybius]

You know, you can post pictures like that, and show the worst of decaying American culture, but it doesn't begin to tell the story.

You mean to tell me that every aspect of the entire spectrum of what is now the so-called "Anglo"culture is not exactly the same for every American?

(I say "so-called Anglo" because it seems that, nowadays, anybody with Polish, Italian, Norwegian and Russian grandparents who only speaks English somehow qualifies as an "Anglo" but a kid who speaks only English with four Mexican grandparents does not.)

You mean your daughter does not look like that?

You mean that, even though a lot of so-called "Anglo" kids at your daughter's school are into drugs, your daughter does not do drugs?

How could that possibly be? Hispanic kids are all alike and "Anglo" kids are all alike, ya know. < /sarcasm>

Ask the women in the hispanic family if the father has a few putas on the side.

I should ask that Hispanic woman at a Catholic Church at a First Communion "if the father has a few putas on the side", you suggest?

Aren't you special?

To you, every Hispanic father, legal or illegal, probably has "a few putas on the side"?

You mean just like a Jew will probably cheat you in business, just like a black American will probably mug you if you pass him at night on a steeet corner, just like a person of Italian descent is probably involved in organized crime, just like a person of Polish descent is probably stupid and just like a person of Irish descent is probably a drunkard?

You mean every Hispanic father, legal or illegal, probably "has a few putas on the side" just like these "Anglo" guys had putas on the side?

Well, since I don't have Internet access to that particular Hispanic family pictured at their Catholic Church at a First Communion, I'll just come right out and ask you how many whores you have on the side. Or do you, like Rev. Ted Haggard have a gay lover on the side?

Hispanic men are all alike and so-called "Anglo" men like you are all alike, ya know.

So, it must be safe to assume you are probably also doing one or the other. So, which is it for you? The Jimmy Swaggert straight whore or the Ted Haggard gay lover?

Since you are entitled to "a few", do you switch back and forth between straight whores and gay lovers?

But, hey, why am I asking you?

You suggested that I should ask that Hispanic woman in a Catholic Church at a First Communion "if the father has a few putas on the side" so why don't you just put your wife at the keyboard so we can ask HER if you have a straight whore or a gay lover on the side.

Ask them how he regards them as women - are they people or property? The news is full of hispanic males blowing away women who had the Anglo temerity to tell them to eff off.

Oh, you mean like this guy?

Or the husbands of the "Anglo" women in Texas that have a higher domestic violence rate than either black or Hispanic women? Prevalence of Partner Violence Against 7,443 African American, White, and Hispanic Women Receiving Care at Urban Public Primary Care Clinics .... The sample consisted of 7,443 women, aged 18–44 years, receiving care at urban, primary health care clinics in southern Texas. White women disclosed abuse at a rate of 8.9%, followed by African American women at 6.0% and Hispanic women at 5.3%.

Let's throw dead kids into the stereotype mix too while we're at it.

Let's throw in Andrea Yates, who drowned her five children one by one.

Then there was Susan Smith that drowned her two kids.

Then there was Amanda Hamm that drowned her two kids.

Boy, the news is just full of so-called "Anglo" women committing mass murder by drowning their own children.

What's up with that?

How many kids have the women in your so-called "Anglo" family drowned? Hispanic woman are all alike and so-called "Anglo" women are all alike, ya know.

So save the silly photos. They don't show the regressive reality of that sick society.

And save your bigoted blanket stereotypes about an entire culture. It just makes you look firmly entrenched in the white trash subculture ..... You know, the white trash subculture that beats "Anglo" women in Texas at a 48% higher domestic violence rate than black women have in Texas and at a 68% higher domestic violence rate than Hispanic women have in Texas.

Hispanic "family values" are a myth.

The fact that, in your daily life, you meet nothing but trash says a lot more about you than it says about Hispanics as a whole.

By the way, unless you are now of 100% "Old American" stock (which is nearly impossible in the U.S. today unless you were born in a hidden valley in Appalachia), in the second half of the 1800's and the first half of the 1900's, the meaning of the term "Anglo" did NOT include the likes of you or ANY of your ancestors that immigrated from anywhere in Europe other than England or Scotland.

You and "your kind" (ya know, those, as they were then stereotyped, "ignorant, dirty, good-for-nothing" Germans, Irish, Poles, Italians, Jews, French, Catholics, Scandinavians, Russians, Portuguese, Balkans and the fill-in-your-Ellis-Island-ancestors-here) were seen by the self-proclaimed "real Americans" as a threat to the Anglo-Saxon culture of America.

Remember your non-Anglo-Saxon ancestors that came to the U.S. in the late 1800's when this cartoon was drawn? Those are their little heads bobbing up and down in the waves between the "Riff" and the "Raff" in the cartoon that depicts what many of the REAL Anglo-Saxons thought about your immigrant ancestor in the 1890's and that depicts the fear of the future "mongrel race" (that's you) that would make the REAL Anglo-Saxons a minority in America in the 20th Century.

Before 1910, the dreaded day when the Old American Anglo-Saxon stock was now a minority in America became a reality.

"If we had only listened to the Know Nothings before it was too late!", the REAL Anglo-Saxons in American thought in 1910.

The Know Nothing and American Crusader ... 15 July 1854

Abraham Lincoln...Letter to Joshua F. Speed ...August 24, 1855... I am not a Know-Nothing. That is certain. How could I be? How can any one who abhors the oppression of negroes, be in favor of degrading classes of white people? Our progress in degeneracy appears to me to be pretty rapid. As a nation, we begin by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes." When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty-to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy.

The issue today is ILLEGAL immigration but you go one step further and blanketly stereotype Hispanics, legal or illegal, just as visciously as some of the REAL Anglo-Saxons stereotyped the blacks and the Irish in the 1870's and just as visciously as some of the REAL Anglo-Saxons stereotyped those ancestors of yours that landed on Ellis Island in the late 1800's and that produced the "mongrel race" in America (that's you) that caused the REAL Anglo-Saxons in America to become a minority in America before 1910.

[Regulator]

Yeah a lot of bad Muslim stuff rubbed off on them. Freeper Caique is from Argentina and had admitted a lot of the conquistador mentality came from the Muslim occupation of Spain

I've worked with Spaniards who admitted that they still have attachment to Islamic ideas since it is part of their genetic heritage now, and pervades Spanish culture still.

I read Cacique's famous post prior to the Senate vote, and I knew exactly what he was talking about. And knew that he understood that if that culture becomes dominant here....it's over. Obviously, a lot of the smart ones get out and leave it all behind.

We gotta keep up the resistance and defend our culture and heritage. And that means squelching Latin "immigration" to a trickle, and reversing it.

Hell, they've got all of Central and South America. More land mass and resources then the U.S.

When will they make something of it?