Posted on 07/27/2007 10:36:59 PM PDT by NOOBIE
The Buncombe County Sheriff’s Office arrested activists Mark and Deborah Kuhn in West Asheville Wednesday morning after a complaint that the couple was desecrating an American flag. They say a deputy invaded their home and used excessive force. [The photo at right, taken by a neighbor, shows Mark on the ground, with Deborah standing by, during the arrest.]
The flag was hung upside down as an act of protest and had several statements pinned to it, including a picture of President Bush with the words “Out Now” upon it and one explaining the meaning of the upside down flag, a sign of distress.
The Kuhns, along with several neighbors and witnesses, assert that a sheriff’s deputy violently invaded their home at 68 Brevard Road. The sheriff’s office claims that the couple assaulted deputy Brian Scarborough and resisted arrest.
According to the report from the sheriff’s office, Scarborough arrived at the home at 8:45 a.m. in response to a complaint about the desecration of a flag.
Lt. Randy Sorrell says that while the address was in the city of Asheville, “when we receive a complaint that the law is being broken, we have to respond.”
Under a rarely enforced state statute, it is a misdemeanor to desecrate or trample a U.S. or North Carolina flag. The Kuhns said the flag was taken as evidence, though the sheriff’s department has no record of it.
After knocking on the door, the couple answered it and, after being shown the statute, said they complied and took the flag down. Scarborough then asked for their identification.
“The flag covered our whole front porch; he comes up with this printout about the law and tells us that we can’t attach things to the flag, that we’re desecrating it,” Deborah Kuhn said. “We tell him we’re not meaning to desecrate it — all we had was a picture of [President] Bush with ‘out now’ on it and a note saying this was not a sign of distress or disrespect. We did this because the country is in distress and we don’t know what to do.”
Then, she said, Scarborough “started talking arrest, so we took the flag down. He kept wanting to see our ID. We refused. We said, ‘Why should we show you our ID — are you arresting us?’; so we walked back into the house and closed the door.”
There, the accounts diverge. According to Deborah Kuhn, Scarborough “tried to force the door, but we got it closed and locked it with the deadbolt. He then kicked it, punched the glass out, unlocked our door and came after us.”
The sheriff’s office report states that “the man [Mark Kuhn] refused to identify himself and slammed the door on the officer’s hand, breaking the glass pane out of the door and cutting the officer’s hand.”
However, the Kuhns’ account is backed up by Jimmy Stevenson, who was working with Ace Hardwood Floors nearby and asserts that he saw Scarborough break down the door.
“I saw that one cop [Scarborough] pull up and I saw those people come out on the porch and start talking to him,” Stevenson said. “They took their flag down, asked the officer to leave and closed the door. Then he started kicking the door, he kicked it about five or six good times, then he laid right into it. After he got done kicking it, he broke the window out – I saw him hit the window.”
Deborah Kuhn says that Scarborough then “pursued my husband into the kitchen, they were scuffling, [and] Mark was trying to get away from him. He pulls out his billy club and I call 911 and say that an officer has broken into our house and is assaulting us.”
Scarborough sustained a cut to his arm when the window broke and Mark Kuhn had several cuts on his face from the scuffle with Scarborough.
“I was just trying to defend myself and back away from him,” Kuhn said. “They never, ever told us why we were being arrested until we were in jail.”
Deborah Kuhn asserted that no warrant was displayed or permission asked to enter the house. After calling 911, she says, she ran outside and began screaming for help.
Sam York, who lives nearby the couple, was awakened by the struggle, as the Kuhns and Scarborough both came out into the yard. “I woke up to Debbie screaming,” he said. “Mark and Debbie were saying ‘you assaulted us’ and the officer [Scarborough], was demanding their identification. Then another officer threatened them with a taser. He told Debbie to back away or he’d taser her and demanded that Mark get on the ground.”
Sorrell confirms this part of the account: “When they were outside, one of the other officers produced a taser and he [Mark Kuhn] surrendered and submitted.”
Deborah Kuhn’s screams also drew the attention of Shawn Brady and several of his roommates, who live next door to the couple. “I run outside and ask them what’s going on and there’s cops chasing Mark around his car,” Brady said. “They threaten to taser him and demand that he get on the ground. He gets on the ground and we ask them what they’re being charged with. They tell us it’s none of our concern. I tell them they’re our neighbors and it is our concern.”
Neal Wilson, who lives with Brady, also saw the deputy produce the taser, he says. After repeated questions, Brady and roommate Tony Plichta said that the deputies replied that “they didn’t know yet” what the couple would be charged with.
“This is an outrage,” Brady said. “The 1st, 4th and 5th Amendments were clearly broken today.” Plichta expressed similar anger. “They actually wanted to know why we cared — these are our neighbors,” he said.
Following the arrest, the Kuhns were taken to the Buncombe County Detention Facility, where they were charged with two counts of assaulting a government official, and one count each of resisting arrest and desecrating an American flag. Their son posted their bail shortly afterwards.
This was not the first time that the flag had attracted attention. On July 18, with just the upside-down flag hanging, an Asheville police officer stopped by to inquire about the situation.
“He was very polite and just said that because it was a sign of distress, he wanted to make sure everything was OK,” Deborah Kuhn said. “We said we had it out as a show of desperation — our country is in distress and we just don’t know what to do. We asked if we had violated any ordinance. He said, ‘No, you have every right.’”
After that, Deborah Kuhn said that she posted up the picture of Bush and the explanation of their reasons for displaying the flag in protest.
A couple of days later, Mark Kuhn said that a man in military fatigues came to their door, and was driving a car with a federal license plate. “He stood here telling me that I needed to take the flag down or fly it right,” he said.
Kuhn adds that he assumed the man was with the National Guard, due to the nearby armory.
Wilson, Plichta and Brady said that after the man stopped by, they also saw him drive by several times during the following days, and one night, witnessed several other men in fatigues taking pictures of the flag.
Furthermore, Wilson said that as the Kuhns were being arrested and taken off, he saw a man in fatigues drive by and shout “Go to jail, baby!”
After his experience, Mark Kuhn said he is convinced this is not an isolated occurrence. “If Americans don’t wake up to the martial state we’re in, the cops, the police, the sheriffs, the state police will all come to our door and take us away if we allow this to happen – it’s time for America to wake up.”
In most states (perhaps all) if a LEO investigating a crime asks for your ID you are required to produce it.
Correct me if wrong?
Under the new, Homeland Security Act, if an officer of the law requires an ID from some-one, they are to present it to the officer.
On the surface it does not sound like the deputy had cause to be forcing his way into the home in the first place"
The Asheville Citizen Times broke the story but their stuff can't be posted here. A freakinasheville.com chat board poster claims this:
"i saw the news report in which the witness spoke, too. the officer wanted id's to make out a ticket, they closed and locked the door on him and would not open the door. the witness said the officer broke the glass, opened the deadlock and entered the home"
I don’t see the flag desecration angle as being winnable in court. A trashy slut wearing a flag thong is more disgraceful than a Citizen participating in political expression.
By who? The non-jack booted thugs wearing badges?
Was the cop out of line? Yeah, but when you’re looking for a fight don’t act all shocked when you get one.
Not in North Carolina. Under a state statute, "it is a misdemeanor to desecrate or trample a U.S. or North Carolina flag".
Police officers are allowed to demand identification (or that a person identify themselves) and pat a person down only if they have a reasonable suspicion that a crime has or is about to occur -- a situation known as a Terry stop. So the officer was correct in demanding this clown's ID, and correct in arresting him for refusing (Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada).
Any other time, a police officer may request identification -- if you give it to them it can be used against you. If you do not wish to give your identification (and you don't have to), simply ask, "Am I free to go?"
i would like to know where there is a cop helping people.
I agree, though it should be a two-part law:
A) Anyone may desecrate the American flag without fear of arrest.
B) Anyone may kick the $hit out of anyone desecrating the American flag without fear of arrest.
What do you base all this on? Did you read what the witnesses stated?
I’m with you. Unfortunately, there’s no law against being a dumbass. The cops are going to be in for it when the flesh-eating lawyers arrive.
‘Why should we show you our ID — are you arresting us?’
the cop has to write up his report that’s why he wants to know who you are....if you don’t want to tell who you are then you go to jail until you feel like identifying yourself....I’m glad the cops used force ....I think they were being baited by this couple.
When a police officer tells you to do something and you don't comply, you're in trouble. He was within his right to enter their house and arrest them at that time.
People like you are why this site has gone to hell.
FR has NOT gone to hell, and if you think it has, you should leave now!
I spoke the truth, and just because you can't handle the truth is no reason to slam me or FR!
Whining to the mods now, you little baby?
Who owns the flag?
Does the government own the flag?
Presumably the policeman is required to fill out a report, and to do so, must know the identities of the individuals involved. It would seem that the only way to really verify who owns the flag would be to ask the presumed owners for their ID, and use that identification to fill out the report.
As initially reported, the policeman's actions to enter the house do not look good.
As press reports can be initially confusing and contradictory, I wait for the facts to be shaken out.
As somebody mentioned in an earlier post, only the lawyers will win in these situations.
I like to fight my own battles, but when someone is making derogatory remarks about Free Republic, the owner has a right to know. I could care less what you say about me, because your opinion means NOTHING, but when you make those kind of remarks about FR, you've crossed over the line!
Go piss up a rope.
I don't have a man's package, so I guess I'd just have to do it in your big mouth!
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