Posted on 07/18/2007 4:51:55 PM PDT by Sub-Driver
I’m curious, how do you know why Bush joined the Guard? He could have stayed out of service altogether instead of getting training to fly jets.
Is it your position that Kerry should have been also elected over Bush, because Kerry is a “combat veteran”?
I did not do any tours in Iraq, you have me there. I did do my service in the USMC as first infantry, and then intel. I well understand the mechanisms for the generation and growth of propaganda. I’ve watched it progress. I’ve watched the entire discussion be turned and morphed by it. It’s not even been a slick operation. It’s been outfront, outrageous and hamfisted.
It is amazing how many fall to the simplistic and flimsy crap.
A series of tours makes you privy to all the discussions held by all the men that had to make the discussions, eh? It’s not all pristine pretty and easy peezy cake walky like the idiot talking heads accused the military of saying it would be, so therefore it must have all been based on bulls**t and bad intention, eh?
The fact that logistics is what determines the possible troops load in any front at any time at all points in every history means squat eh? It’s all about the shoulda.
Even now, after the end strengths have been increased, and troops in the appropriate fields are more available, the man you so admire is saying that sending more troops to the field is going to break the system. This is the same guy that said more troops should have been put in at the beginning. The reserve was called up, inactive reserve called up, National Guard pulled in, but from some magical place, there just should have been more troops on the ground.
Wonderful thinking there champ. Magic wand warfare. Just wave a wand, make a wish and it’s all hunky dory and pretty perfect.
Take a sec and look up the term, useful idiot.
The US Armed Forces are called in when the State Dept. and the CIA can’t handle the job. Powell ended up where he belongs, in the socialist, appeasing partygoers.
OH, also all great and mighty one. Ask yourself what value your weakness in the face of such simple propaganda serves your fellows still over there and closing in on a real victory.
You give yourself over to those who preach our defeat. It is the willingness to submit to criticisms for the simple sake of criticism and the demand for impossibly perfect outcomes to problems that are by their very definition, complex and loaded with unknowns that those who preach our defeat count on.
I have no respect for Powell. I didn’t for most of his tenure in the government after leaving the military.
He would be saying something correct if he really knew what he was saying. That is, we spent a decade and a half gutting our military capability to conduct conventional warfare. And we are now suffering for it because we are required to fight a conventional war for an extended period. We need significantly more in uniform for better rotations.
Yes, our troop levels are a burden. Unfortunately, we don’t really have any choice. And it won’t get better because there are no plans in the works to rebuild the size of our armed forces.
And, if what I’ve read is accurate, we are still downsizing our naval fleet.
I think Bush joined the Guard to avoid combat. I'll never know that for sure, but there were plenty of ways to easily get into combat, and the Guard wasn't one of them. It is a fact that many desperately wanted to join the Guard to avoid Vietnam.
Kerry is a disgrace for voting to go to war, and then voting to not fund us properly. How anyone can have the nerve to run for POTUS on an anti-war platform after voting to go to war is beyond me. As awful as Bush is, Kerry is worse. I chose the lesser of two evils.
I'm sure I won't change the opinion of someone who thinks that Iraq, amnesty, and Harriet Miers were good choices.
It is amazing how many fall to the simplistic and flimsy crap.
A series of tours makes you privy to all the discussions held by all the men that had to make the discussions, eh? It’s not all pristine pretty and easy peezy cake walky like the idiot talking heads accused the military of saying it would be, so therefore it must have all been based on bulls**t and bad intention, eh?
The fact that logistics is what determines the possible troops load in any front at any time at all points in every history means squat eh? It’s all about the shoulda.
Even now, after the end strengths have been increased, and troops in the appropriate fields are more available, the man you so admire is saying that sending more troops to the field is going to break the system. This is the same guy that said more troops should have been put in at the beginning. The reserve was called up, inactive reserve called up, National Guard pulled in, but from some magical place, there just should have been more troops on the ground.
Wonderful thinking there champ. Magic wand warfare. Just wave a wand, make a wish and it’s all hunky dory and pretty perfect.
Take a sec and look up the term, useful idiot.
I know what a useful idiot is. Look in the mirror Bushbot. We could have had tens of thousands of extra troops over there. There was actually a plan in place at CENTCOM for such an occasion. You act as if more troops were a logistical impossibility. It wasn't. That is a fact.
You're tough on the internet. Why don't you go over to Iraq? There are plenty of contract jobs that pay very well and are tax free. I know you won't go. Better and braver men like me will protect you, even though you'd rather see our lives squandered than admit that Bush made a mistake by going into Iraq.
You're the one who relies on propaganda. Where do you get your information? White House press releases? I got mine first hand. Take a poll of Marines who have done tours in Iraq. You won't find many who think that things will turn out well. I still think that we should stay and fight until Iraqis can handle security themselves. We need to finish what we started. I just wish that we had never gone in the first place.
For what it’s worth, if anything at all, I wont disagree with you about the amnesty or Harriet Miers thing. Those were boneheaded, to say the least.
Your understanding of the process that decided how many troops went in initially and how many stayed after conventional fighting ended, though, is flawed in the extreme.
Those were decisions made by the military and based one two issues.
Plans built and revised over the decades prior to, and the logistics ability to sustain a force as currently existed.
Those are always the determing factors. The POTUS did not make the plan, he signed off on what plan he was given as most appropriate by the military.
Every bit of evidence backs that up. Every comment from the senior commanders responsible for the management of the war have indicated that they got what they asked for when they asked for it.
A bit of perspective, all Counter Insurgency fights start messy and then work themselves, slowly, toward the mix of tactics and strategy that works best at the end, and most CI campaigns can expect to be fought over a full decade or so. It’s just the unfortunate nature of that particular beast.
Also, please consider this. All propaganda campaigns are designed to work on perceived frustrations and fears with the goal of separating the soldier and civilian population from its leadership, both political and military by constantly agitating and amplifying those frustrations and fears.
Perfection does not exist in peace or war, except in fantasy.
He also failed to get free passage through Turkey.
“You’re the one who relies on propaganda. Where do you get your information? White House press releases? I got mine first hand. Take a poll of Marines who have done tours in Iraq. You won’t find many who think that things will turn out well. I still think that we should stay and fight until Iraqis can handle security themselves. We need to finish what we started. I just wish that we had never gone in the first place.”
No sir. My views come from watching the process and the obvious propaganda campaign develop concurrently.
Our enemy knows full well that Americans have proven themselves to be amazingly susceptible to the lamest and stupidest of possible agitprop mechanisms for the last full generation. They don’t even try to be slick or sophisticated anymore.
This is something well known to our military as well, and has been at least since I was serving during the ‘80s. This is where the restrictive ROE originate from. Our military knows full well that much of our population will immediately accept as true, any accusation against our military, no matter how exaggerated.
Agreed. He should just STFU.
Powell is auditioning for Hillary’s VP spot.
I don’t think she cares much for Obama.
Well, you’re only wrong on 2 out of the 3. I did (and still do) support the war in Iraq. Nice try on the other two outright lies, though.
There is always a reason why generals are retired.
Powell needs to SDASTFU...he’s old news and getting more tiresome by the day.
"It is well that war is so terrible — lest we should grow too fond of it."
- Robert E. Lee
...”Kerry is a disgrace for voting to go to war, and then voting to not fund us properly.”...
Kerry is not a disgrace for the reason you state above. Kerry is a disgrace for his treasonous behaviors after bugging out of RVN after 3 mos in-country with 3 questionable Purple Heart awards and a clearly questionable Silver Star. I know that many troopers and marines serving in OIF since its inception in 2002 have sustained far more serious wounds than Kerry yet RTD if possible ASAP. Furthermore, I submit that GWBs service in F-102s, even with the TNG, was more dangerous that Kerry’s 3 mos on the Mekong River in the brown water navy. I would not compare Kerry to anyone - veteran or not - in terms of disgracefulness. He is the benchmark.
That’s exactly the same thing I heard. Also, he was asked to come up with a plan for invading Iraq in Gulf War I, and it was pure, “over the top, infantry swarming against tanks & machine guns like WWI” with tens of thousands of anticipated American casualties. He was asked if he wouldn’t mind having some other generals give it a fresh look, and Schwartzkopf came up with his plan within a matter of moments, and Powell was politely asked not to be involved in the strategic planning after that. Soon afterwards, his military career was over.
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