Revival of Latin Mass upsets liberals

Seattle Times ^ | Nicole Winfield

[narses]

VATICAN CITY — Pope Benedict XVI on Saturday removed restrictions on celebrating the old Latin Mass, reviving a rite that was all but swept away by the liberalizing reforms of the Second Vatican Council. The decision, a victory for traditional, conservative Roman Catholics, came over the objections of liberal-minded Catholics and angered Jews because the Tridentine Mass contains a prayer for their conversion. ... In addition to Jewish concerns, bishops in France, and liberal-minded clergy and faithful elsewhere expressed concerns that allowing freer use of the Tridentine liturgy would imply a negation of Vatican II and create divisions in parishes since two different liturgies would be celebrated.

[livius]

It's like listening to a friggin' Peter, Paul, and Mary concert during PBS pledge week!!!

ROFLOL! Oh - I guess they forgot to mention that this is for people who were young 40 years ago.

Actually, I should amend that. I was young 40 years ago, but the people who were doing and promoting this garbage were a good 10-20 years older than I was at that time.

It was the generation before us that thought they were being "youth oriented" by doing these sappy things. Everybody except the flakiest and most liberal of the actual "youth" voted with their feet and left the Church or, at any rate, took a long vacation. So it's not only real youth coming back now, but many people who were "real youth" in the 60s and were driven away by this strange and nauseating mixture that the official Church somehow saw fit to offer them.

[marsh_of_mists]

I am a Jew, and I am not offended. I am, however, offended by liberal “Temples” where leftist “Rabbis” preach Secular Humanism and Socialism instead of the Torah.

The liberation of the Latin Mass is not, as any honest and informed person can see, a Catholic vs. Jewish thing. It's a Catholic vs. liberal Catholic thing. Now, the liberal Catholics are colluding with liberal Jews like Abraham Foxman and they're both colluding with the secular liberal media to stir a tempest in a teapot. What a shocker! Our liberal clergy and your left-wing rabbis probably have more in common with each other than either of us.

[George from New England]

Ironically, the “priest” I heard this from was presiding at a wedding at Sacred Heart Church in the heart of Tampa 7/7/07.

[George from New England]

WHAT YOU SAY SAY SAy Say say say sa s

[Heatseeker]

But in the old days we caught flak from both sides -- the Catholics looked at us as "Catholic Lite" at best, while the "real" Protestants thought we were, if not the Scarlet Woman, at least her handmaiden.

Yes, I remember that. As one of my Catholic friends later put it, "you'd still be Catholic except for Henry VIII wanting to get into Anne Boleyn's pants", LOL. Our diocese was mostly low-church though. Alas, from what I can see of the current state of "King Henry's Catholic Church" (I bailed out in the early 80's) "low church" probably means you only have the gay orgies once a month on Holy Communion Sundays. ;)

[AnAmericanMother]

Amen!

And now we have to listen to those same liberal loons in their second childhood, still saying they are trying to attract the "youth" when what they are really trying to do is recapture THEIR youth . . . .

. . . a totally wasted effort, and even if they could, what would they have? Bupkis!

[AnAmericanMother]

They actually went to Communion every Sunday instead of Morning Prayer when they revised the Prayer Book back in the 70s.

It made the ECUSA actually "look" more Catholic, while the theology was actually going further and further away.

We should have seen the handwriting on the wall back then, but our parish was relatively conservative until recently. The shenanigans since 2003 have made it impossible for anybody to ignore the heresy much longer. We bailed in August 2003, right after that General Convention, and were received into the Catholic Church in May 2004.

Couldn't be happier, wish we'd taken the leap sooner!

[AnAmericanMother]

You've put your finger right on it.

For liberals, that IS their religion -- they have far more in common with each other than actual members of their professed religion, be they nominally Jewish, Catholic, or Protestant.

I have always gotten along better with straight-up Orthodox Presbyterians, Southern Baptists, and Conservative or Orthodox Jews than the lib PCUSAers, Jimmuh Carter Baptists, or Reform (or heaven forfend Reconstructionist) Jews.

[AnAmericanMother]

LOL! I sometimes lag behind in the empty sanctuary after choir practice and sing a fortissimo stacatto "BEEP" on about a high A, just to hear it bounce around the walls . . . I feel like Igor in Young Frankenstein peeking around the door and saying "Blücher!" to the horses, but they haven't caught me yet!

[MondoQueen]

The only problem with “not needing a church” is that the future generations will have no knowledge of what a church is. We have to go to church for the children as well as for ourselves, because if they don’t have faith in God, what can one have faith in? Oneself? Rulers? Newspapers? Teachers?

[khnyny]

Interesting bull promulgated by the pope, but I don’t see how he will actually be able to implement it.

Its been 40 years since the Catholic Church used Latin, I suspect the vast majority don’t know enough of the language to read the slogan on a pack of cigarettes.

One cannot just order this kind of change, teaching Latin to legions of priests and altar servers is a huge task.

LOL. Priests study Latin in the seminary and are quite proficient, as are many Catholics. Many of us have taken Latin in school. Actually, I think you'd be surprised how many understand Latin, especially the prayers of the Mass.

God bless Pope Benedict.

[Charles Martel]

The argument for the guitar mass is that it appeals to the young, but why should music in the 60's folk music style appeal to the young? It's like listening to a friggin' Peter, Paul, and Mary concert during PBS pledge week!!!

Ah, but the "traditional" guitar mass is not the one currently preferred by the young crowd. That's right, the "folk" guitar mass has split off a newer version featuring *electric* guitar, bass and keyboard. Picture a wedding reception band, but playing "Christian Rock"-influenced tunes.

In my parish, it's the last mass on Sunday evening. It's not my cup of tea, but I did find it a bit easier to tolerate than the "Peter, Paul and Mary" version.

[Donald Rumsfeld Fan]

Tridentine Mass

[livius]

if they don’t have faith in God, what can one have faith in? Oneself? Rulers? Newspapers? Teachers?

Good question. None of the alternatives is particularly confidence-inspiring...

[Heatseeker]

It made the ECUSA actually "look" more Catholic, while the theology was actually going further and further away.

I remember that too. In 1973 I was on a trip to Rome with a bunch of other high-school kids, some of whom were from Catholic schools, and when we went to St Peter's I remember one of the Catholic kids' chaperones kidding his charges that I knew the Mass better than they did. If memory serves it was when there were several versions of the "New Liturgy" floating around and the one our parish was trying was very similar to the novus Ordo Missae

Glad you made it over to safe ground. I've wandered, everywhere from various Anglo-Catholic churches to my wife's Southern Baptist church where I've spent most of my time; but the election of Pope Benedict and now this encouragement of the Latin Mass has got me into these sorts of threads; I think of it as backstroke practice for that swim across the Tiber. ;)

[It's me]

The sentence about some Jews being upset because of a prayer for their conversion caught my eye. As a (non-observant) Jew I find the controversy to be totally ridiculous. What possible difference does it make if Catholics want to pray for Jews to convert? Nobody's being forced to convert, so nobody's rights are being violated. If that's what floats your boat, pray away all you want.

Of all the things for Jews to worry about in today's world, I can't think of anything less important.

I absolutely agree with you. I say the same about Mormon baptisms of the dead. Go ahead and baptize my ancestors. It means nothing to me. I don't believe what they are doing has any effect. So go ahead if that floats your boat, baptize all you want.

[Donald Rumsfeld Fan]

I feel like Igor in Young Frankenstein peeking around the door and saying "Blücher!" to the horses, but they haven't caught me yet!

LOL

Blucher!

[B-Chan]

We’re not Anglicans — we’re Roman Catholics, celebrating mass according the the Anglican Usage of the Roman Rite.

[dfwgator]

Blucher!

"Neigh"

[marsh_of_mists]

You've put your finger right on it.

Oh, great, now I have to go wash my hands. LOL.

I have always gotten along better with straight-up Orthodox Presbyterians, Southern Baptists, and Conservative or Orthodox Jews than the lib PCUSAers, Jimmuh Carter Baptists, or Reform (or heaven forfend Reconstructionist) Jews.

Me too, and I get along better with the more conservative members of other religions than with the liberal cafeteria Catholics damaging my own Church. Who can respect people who spend most of their religious efforts looking for loopholes to get out of the tenants of their own declared faith?