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To: J Aguilar
I meant Spanish troops. BTW, are there German troops in Lebanon?

Yep. Germany has a small flotilla (to my knowlege 2 frigates and a few speedboats) deployed there to help the Lebanese controlling their coast. They are part of the UN mission.

A broad disaffection with the Aznar government.

It is indeed true that the Aznar gouvernment provided a much better economic policy than the current socialist BS of Zapatero. Therefore many Spaniards were in favour of them. Nevertheless Aznar was obviously unable to provide security since he engaged himself in a war that was not wanted by his voters. It is difficult to explain your people to bring civillian sacrifices for a war if 79% of them are against it. That is democracy. Leaders who act against the will of their people are simply overruled. This is what happened to Aznar.

Again, you got a great advantange for 3/11 (read carefully), the European Constitution was signed soon thereafter. Don't try to hide it.

No damage without a benefit. Of course many friends of the European cause were quite happy that Aznar disappeared in the nowhere, but NOBODY (and I mean really NOBODY) ever welcomed the terrorplots in Spain because of that. Such a claim is ridicolous.

You say: "The war in Iraq had nothing to do with 3/11,"

Interesting. The American administration once declared that they attacked Iraq because of their links to Al Quaida and 9/11.

Aznar government was going to win the National Election and somebody organized a coup to avoid that. The major beneficiares where clearly France and Germany, because the European Constitution was signed soon thereafter, whilst Aznar had blocked it. The dynamite used is not Spanish, but European.

I hear your hidden claim in those lines that the bad bad German and French secret services (probably a mixture of Gestapo, BND, STASI, Deuxième Bureau and DGSE) are behind his reckless and primitive terror plot to force Spain into the European constitution. This proposition is as ridicoulus as the weird claim that "the Jews" are behind 9/11. Of course Germany and France have some common interests. Nevertheless you can be assured that we would not murder 191 innocent people of a friendly nation just to have a treaty signed. Since such conspiracy (if it ever would exist) comes to surface sooner or later, the damage for Germany and France would be horrendous then. Since we have some quite responsible people in our governments left such involvement is therefore extremely unlikely and implausible. Besides - if pro-Aznar Spainards like you think that such BS is possible why is your (once) mighty leader such a friend of NATO and even the EU as long it developed the antiquated economy of Spain after its joining. You should not forget that Germany and France are both members in all those organisations and declared friends of Spain. It is grotty even think that such is possible. Shame on you!

I don't want a Europe based in deception, manipulation and murder, but Freedom and Justice. I am afraid others simply want an Europe where, it doesn't matter how, Germany prevails.

Just take into your consideration that Germany and its administration also could stand for a Europe based on freedom and justice and that your friend with his walrus moustache and those twins from poland might stand for the opposite. Do you have any proof for your backstabbing theory? Is it possible that you are the victim of a stone old propaganda trick? Yes I am sure that Germany and its friends will prevail in the long term but I am also convinced that this is in the basic interest of Europe.

63 posted on 06/27/2007 9:25:52 PM PDT by Atlantic Bridge (In varieatate concordia!)
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To: J Aguilar
I said: "The American administration once declared that they attacked Iraq because of their links to Al Quaida and 9/11. "

it must read like this:

"The American administration once declared that they attacked Iraq among other causes because of their links to Al Quaida and 9/11."

64 posted on 06/27/2007 9:29:01 PM PDT by Atlantic Bridge (In varieatate concordia!)
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To: Atlantic Bridge
That is democracy. Leaders who act against the will of their people are simply overruled. This is what happened to Aznar.

That is a completely lack of respect to the victims of 3/11, used to change the result of the Election.

NOBODY (and I mean really NOBODY) ever welcomed the terrorplots in Spain because of that. Such a claim is ridicolous.

Good to know. BTW, why did Chirac not negotiate the European Constitution in the December 2003 summit? What was he awaiting?

Interesting. The American administration once declared that they attacked Iraq because of their links to Al Quaida and 9/11.

Sure it is interesting: Iraq had nothing to do with Al Qaeda but Al Qaeda attacked Spain because of Iraq.

You are admitting Al Qaeda wasn't behind 3/11.

if pro-Aznar Spainards like you think that such BS is possible why is your (once) mighty leader such a friend of NATO and even the EU as long it developed the antiquated economy of Spain after its joining. You should not forget that Germany and France are both members in all those organisations and declared friends of Spain. It is grotty even think that such is possible. Shame on you!

First of all, I am not pro-Aznar. I am pro-Justice, I am pro-Life, I am pro-Freedom, I am pro-Truth. I know that to higly ideologized Socialists it is difficult to understand.

Second, France does not pertain to NATO military structure, it acts independtly in military operations.

Third, ETA is based in France. To kill Spaniards ETA uses French dynamite. ETA resuplies through Europe. No foreign Secret Services are needed to carry out the job. ETA is there for such tasks.

Just take into your consideration that Germany and its administration also could stand for a Europe based on freedom and justice and that your friend with his walrus moustache and those twins from poland might stand for the opposite.

That is not true, as it is proved by French protectionism, the blocking of a pan-European energy market by Electricité de France and the public owned French companies.

Germany is still a Socialist country, as it was built by Bismarck and then Hitler. For the Socialists, Freedom is in a second position. For them ends justify means, and the life, freedom and pursuit of happiness of single individuals have no influence in their plans.

Yes I am sure that Germany and its friends will prevail in the long term but I am also convinced that this is in the basic interest of Europe.

One of the characteristics of Socialism is that they claim to know what the best interests for everyone are. The French Establishment and its German allies know what is the best for every European. My Godness! Let people free and let them pursuit their own interests.

Do you have any proof for your backstabbing theory?

I repeat:
why did Chirac not negotiate the European Constitution in the December 2003 summit? What was he awaiting?
88 posted on 06/30/2007 6:00:21 AM PDT by J Aguilar (Veritas vos liberabit)
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