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To: FastCoyote
My point is that you cite a survivalist lunatic as a reliable source and yet you tell me that I have to be more selective in what I believe on the Internet. At the Google link you gave me for "White Horse Prophecy" the very first document linked contains this:

It cannot be said that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints accepts the White Horse Prophecy as official or binding. It also is true that nothing in the so called prophecy is quoted or used by authorities in the Church. It is true that there is language the so-called prophecy that is found elsewhere in historically verifiable records.

The prophecy that contains the concept of the Constitution of the United States being challenged and then saved by the Elders of the Church is accepted as a prophecy of Joseph Smith. There is evidence that the he repeated it more than once and it was commonly understood and accepted. It has been quoted many times by leaders of the Church. It is nevertheless not part of the Church canon and is therefore not binding upon the membership of the Church as a whole.

It is very clear that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter- day Saints does not believe that there will be a time when the government of the United States or the world will be assumed by the Church or its members. Rather it is the clear expectation that the Constitution and the government of the United States will survive the future predicted crisis because of the support that will be given by the Elders of the Church.

The White Horse Prophecy

But the apocalyptic nut job from Parowan is more credible in your book. And even if this were a true, binding prophecy, so what? The Constitution of the United States will be rescued and upheld by the church. How is that a bad thing? The church fights to save the country from destruction and this, in your book, is a bad thing. Now that's spin.

406 posted on 06/25/2007 5:30:47 AM PDT by Reaganesque (Romney 2008)
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To: Reaganesque

“But the apocalyptic nut job from Parowan is more credible in your book. “

I said nothing of the sort, you are just fishing like usual. Someone wanted to know about the Prophecy, so I quickly looked for a link that seemed relatively informative, however I also said there were a ton of other links out there.

But the point still stands, even if Parowan is a nut, Mormon philosophy and heritage invites such nuttery to swarm like flies.


423 posted on 06/25/2007 6:29:47 AM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: Reaganesque

Mormons have long held and in fact restated the White Horse Prophecy. I can’t believe that they are now trying to distance themselves from it, even relegating it to some sort of “myth.” Disgusting really.

1854
Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 15, Brigham Young, July 4, 1854

Will the Constitution be destroyed? No: it will be held inviolate by this people; and, as Joseph Smith said, “The time will come when the destiny of the nation will hang upon a single thread. At that critical juncture, this people will step forth and save it from the threatened destruction.” It will be so.

1855
Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, p. 182, Brigham Young, February 18, 1855

Brethren and sisters, our friends wish to know our feelings towards the Government. I answer, they are first-rate, and we will prove it too, as you will see if you only live long enough, for that we shall live to prove it is certain; and when the Constitution of the United States hangs, as it were, upon a single thread, they will have to call for the “Mormon” Elders to save it from utter destruction; and they will step forth and do it.

We love the Constitution of our country; it is all we could ask; though in some few instances there might be some amendments made which would better it.

1912
Joseph F. Smith, Conference Report, October 1912, p. 11

Now, these are the commandments of God, the principles contained in these commandments of the great Eternal are the principles that underly the Constitution of our country and all just laws. Joseph Smith, the prophet, was inspired to affirm and ratify this truth, and he further predicted that the time would come, when the Constitution of our country would hang as it were by a thread, and that the Latter-day Saints above all other people in the world would come to the rescue of that great and glorious palladium of our liberty.

1922
Charles W. Nibley, Conference Report, October 1922, p. 40

My brethren and sisters, I hope that we will go home from this conference determined as a great body of people, to stand for law, order, righteousness, justice and peace on earth and good will among all men. I believe as the Prophet Joseph has written, that the day would come when there would be so much of disorder, of secret combinations taking the law into their own hands, tramping upon Constitutional rights and the liberties of the people, that the Constitution would hang as by a thread. Yes, but it will still hang, and there will be enough of good people, many who may not belong to our Church at all, people who have respect for law and for order, and for Constitutional rights, who will rally around with us and save the Constitution. I have never read that that thread would be cut. It will hang; the Constitution will abide and this civilization, that the Lord has caused to be built up, will stand fortified through the power of God, by putting from our hearts all that is evil, or that is wrong in the sight of God, by our living as we should live, acceptable to him.

1928
Melvin J. Ballard, Conference Report, October 1928, p. 108

The Prophet Joseph told us that he saw the day when even the Constitution of the United States would be torn and hang as by a thread. But, thank the Lord, the thread did not break. He saw the day when this people would be a balance of power to come to its defense. The Book of Mormon prophecies concerning the future of America have been referred to in our hearing during this conference, wherein it is stated that this nation, though it becomes a mighty nation, still it can stand in security here only as it serves the God of this land. That conception was in the hearts of the men who founded America.

1933
Melvin J. Ballard, Conference Report, April 1933, p. 127

I believe that it is the destiny of the Latter-day Saints to support the Constitution of the United States. The Prophet Joseph Smith is alleged to have said—and I believe he did say it—that the day would come when the Constitution would hang as by a thread. But he saw that the thread did not break, thank the Lord, and that the Latter-day Saints would become a balance of power, with others, to preserve that Constitution. If there is—and there is one part of the Constitution hanging as by a thread today—where do the Latter-day Saints belong? Their place is to rally to the support of that Constitution, and maintain it and defend it and support it by their lives and by their vote. Let us not disappoint God nor his prophet. Our place is fixed.

1942
Harold B. Lee, Conference Report, April 1942, p. 87

But beyond all that, the Latter-day Saints have a responsibility, that may be better understood when we recall the prophecy of Joseph Smith who declared that “the time would come when ( the destiny and ) the Constitution of these United States would hang as it were by a thread, and that this people, the sons of Zion, would rise up and save it from threatened destruction.” (J. of D., Vol. 7:15)

I want to ask you to consider the meaning of that prophecy, in the light of the declaration of the prophets of the Book of Mormon times, who declared that this land was a choice land above all other lands, and would be free from bondage and from captivity, and from all other nations under heaven, if they will but serve the God of this land, even our Savior, Jesus Christ. (Ether 2:12)

1942
J. Reuben Clark, Jr., Conference Report, October 1942, p. 58

You and I have heard all our lives that the time may come when the Constitution may hang by a thread. I do not know whether it is a thread, or a small rope by which it now hangs, but I do know that whether it shall live or die is now in the balance.

1946
Mark E. Petersen, Conference Report, April 1946, p. 171

How long will it be before the words of the prophet Joseph will be fulfilled? He said if the Constitution of the United States were saved at all it must be done by this people. It will not be many years before these words come to pass. When the Constitution of the United States hangs, as it were, upon a single thread, they will have to call for the “Mormon Elders to save it from utter destruction; and they will step forth and do it. . . . if it is sustained on this land of Joseph, it will be done by us and our posterity. (Ibid., pp. 360,361.)

1948
Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, April 1948, p. 85

It is no wonder that the Prophet Joseph said—even though he knew he would suffer martyrdom in this land—”The Constitution of the United States is a glorious standard; it is founded in the wisdom of God. It is a heavenly banner.”

Yet, according to his contemporaries, he foresaw the time when the destiny of the nation would be in danger and would hang as by a thread. Thank God he did not see the thread break. He also indicated the important part that this people should yet play in standing for the principles embodied in these sacred documents—the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.

1949
Clifford E. Young, Conference Report, April 1949, p. 75-76

I would like to add this in conclusion. It is said that President Brigham Young, many years ago, made this statement:

When the Constitution of the United States hangs, as it were, upon a single thread, they will have to call for Mormon elders to save it from utter destruction: and they will step forth and do it. (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 2:182, Feb. 18, 1855.)

This is recorded in the Journal of Discourses and I presume it is accurate, but however it may be, is it not a possibility, that this Church, in its great leadership and in the power that will come to it in advocating the things that are divine and are right and true as for example the great welfare program, is not possible that when we as a nation shall have exhausted our resources—and we can well do that if we do not turn about—when we have we have reached that point is it not possible that to us will those who are not of us look for guidance and we will be held up as a people who are pointing an economic way that will mean for the economic and spiritual salvation and blessing of our people.

1950
Joseph Fielding Smith, Conference Report, April 1950, p. 159

I must not take more time but to add this: The statement has been made that the Prophet said the time would come when this Constitution would hang as by a thread, and this is true. There has been some confusion, however, as to just what he said following this. I think that Elder Orson Hyde has given us a correct interpretation wherein he says that the Prophet said the Constitution would be in danger. Said Orson Hyde:

I believe he said something like this — that the time would come when the Constitution and the country would be in danger of an overthrow; and said he: “If the Constitution be saved at all, it will be by the Elders of this Church.” I believe this is about the language, as nearly as I can recollect it. (Journal of Discourses, 6:152.)

Now I tell you it is time the people of the United States were waking up with the understanding that if they don’t save the Constitution from the dangers that threaten it, we will have a change of government.

1952
Harold B. Lee, Conference Report, October 1952, p. 18

It was Joseph Smith who has been quoted as having said that the time would come when the Constitution would hang as by a thread and at that time when it was thus in jeopardy, the elders of this Church would step forth and save it from destruction.

Why the elders of this Church? Would it be sacrilegious to paraphrase the words of the Apostle Peter, and say that the Constitution of the United States could be saved by the elders of this Church because this Church and this Church alone has the words of eternal life? We alone know by revelation as to how the Constitution came into being, and we, alone, know by revelation the destiny of this nation. The preservation of “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness” can be guaranteed upon no other basis than upon a sincere faith and testimony of the divinity of these teachings.

1956
Joseph Fielding Smith Jr., Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 3, p. 326

CONSTITUTION TO HANG BY A THREAD. The statement has been made that the Prophet said the time would come when this Constitution would hang as by a thread, and this is true. There has been some confusion, however, as to just what he said following this. I think that Elder Orson Hyde has given us a correct interpretation wherein he says that the Prophet said the Constitution would be in danger.

Said Orson Hyde: “I believe he said something like this—that the time would come when the Constitution and the country would be in danger of an overthrow; and said he: ‘If the Constitution be saved at all, it will be by the elders of this Church.’ I believe this is about the language, as nearly as I can recollect it.”

1961
Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, October 1961, p. 70

Eleventh: In connection with attack on the United States, the Lord told the Prophet Joseph Smith there would be an attempt to overthrow the country by destroying the Constitution. Joseph Smith predicted that the time would come when the Constitution would hang, as it were, by a thread, and at that time “this people will step forth and save it from the threatened destruction.” (Journal History, Brigham Young’s Speech, July 4, 1854.)

It is my conviction that the elders of Israel, widely spread over the nation will at that crucial time successfully rally the righteous of our country and provide the necessary balance of strength to save the institutions of constitutional government.

1961
Senator Wallace F. Bennett, BYU Speeches, February 15, 1961, p. 13:

We have much in our national system that militates against the rise of a dictator. The Bill of Rights with its philosophy of individual rights against oppression is still a curb on a power-hungry President. But if I were to guess as to how the Constitution may “hang by a thread” it would be because of the immense powers given to the President and his opportunity for their abuse.

Let us delve once again into the great principles of the Constitution and resolve that we will do all in our power to preserve these principles for our posterity. This is our duty as citizens of the United States, and pre-eminently our duty as Latter-day Saints, because without the Constitution this glorious restoration would not have taken place in this land and might not have taken place at this point in history.

1963
Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, April 1963, p. 113:

The Prophet Joseph Smith said the time would come when the Constitution would hang as it were by a thread. Modern-day prophets for the last thirty years have been warning us that we have been rapidly moving in that direction. Fortunately, the Prophet Joseph Smith saw the part the elders of Israel would play in this crisis. Will there be some of us who won’t care about saving the Constitution, others who will be blinded by the craftiness of men, and some who will knowingly be working to destroy it? He that has ears to hear and eyes to see can discern by the Spirit and through the words of God’s mouthpiece that our liberties are being taken.

1963
Judge Joseph E. Nelson, BYU Speeches, April 24, 1963, p. 3:

Our government is an organization which was to, and since has, enacted, judged and enforced law through and by legislative, judicial and executive departments. It is encumbent on the American people to steadfastly maintain the historic balance of power by the three branches of government if our political system is to be preserved. If this is not done then the thread by which it has been predicted the Constitution will hang will be clipped and our form of government will disappear. We, the American people, must not become so internationally minded as to sell our birthright for a spurious promise of world peace. The most nationally-minded people are our enemies. We must remain faithful to our pledge, regardless of charges of chauvinism, to preserve America “with our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.”

1964
Dr. Ernest L. Wilkinson, BYU Speeches, February 18, 1964, p. 9:

I am concerned that in our worship of materialism in our country we now have an indebtedness of over $5,000 for every man, woman, and child in this country. (This includes obligations for goods already delivered and services already rendered to the government, although payable in the future.) I am concerned that we have in effect abandoned the Monroe Doctrine as our safeguard for ultimate protection of this hemisphere, and that as a result we are threatened with Communism not only in Cuba but in South America and now in Africa as well. If the Constitution is to hang by a thread in this country, I want to be one to help to preserve it.

1966
Dr. Ernest L. Wilkinson, BYU Speeches, April 21, 1966, p. 7:

In my commencement address I gave the language and sources of the prophetic utterance made by the Prophet Joseph that the Constitution of the United States would hang by a single thread, but be saved by the elders of Israel. I hope you will read those sources so you will be well-informed as to this prophecy and be prepared to do your part in its fulfillment.

Dr. Ernest L. Wilkinson, BYU Speeches, April 21, 1966, p. 9:

Now what has happened in our country during the time we have been plunging toward socialism? Are we actually at that point where the Constitution may be hanging by a single thread and we need to step in to save it?


426 posted on 06/25/2007 7:22:39 AM PDT by colorcountry (To pursue union at the expense of truth is treason to the Lord Jesus. - Charles Haddon Spurgeon -)
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