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To: mad_as_he$$
Geez man can you stay on point? Now you are bringing Neanderthals into it. My point is that HUMAN mtDNA has a KNOW decay rate through generations. When zeroed it DOES NOT support 6,000 or even 5,000 years of HUMAN generations. I didn't say I don't believe the Genesis. ONLY that mtDNA does not support the RELIGOUS version of the story.

First, you weren't exactly clear in what you were referring to.

But this is par for course for the Evolutionists who love to be coy.

Second,as for defending the Biblical account, ofcourse it does, it refer to one common female ancestor, which was Eve.

What you want to believe is that it can be shown to go back further than 6,000 years, which it doesn't.

Mutation rates can now be determined directly by comparing the mtDNA of many mother-child pairs. Using the new, more accurate rate mitochondrial Eve lived only about 6,000 years ago (In the Beginning, compelling evidence for Creation and the Flood, Walt Brown, Ph.D. 7th edit.2001, pg.229)

As far as you making statements about how God will judge me you can go screw yourself. Threating people with God is foolish and childish - if you want to worship a god because you are scared $hitless of him/her that is your business. Don't threaten me unless of course you are God, then let's talk.

I am not threatening you with anything.

I told you what the Scriptures say on the subject.

So when you are standing at the Judgement, your blood will not be on my hands.

Funny you picked my post to challenge - is it to accurate for you? Or you just don't want to discuss the fossil record because you cannot argue it?

What fossil record?

There is no fossil record for evolution.

You have not come up with any transitional forms (a species moving from one species to another higher species) in those fossils.

A fish is a fish.

173 posted on 05/30/2007 12:14:31 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration (We must beat the Democrats or the country will be ruined! -Abe Lincoln)
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To: fortheDeclaration
"Walt Brown received a Ph.D. in mechanical engineering from Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) where he was a National Science Foundation Fellow. He has taught college courses in physics, mathematics, and computer science. Brown is a retired full colonel (Air Force), West Point graduate, and former Army ranger and paratrooper. Assignments during his 21 years in the military included: Director of Benet Research, Development, and Engineering Laboratories in Albany, New York; tenured associate professor at the U.S. Air Force Academy; and Chief of Science and Technology Studies at the Air War College. For much of his life, Walt Brown was an evolutionist, but after many years of study, he became convinced of the scientific validity of creation and a global flood. Since retiring from the military in 1980, Dr. Brown has been the Director of the Center for Scientific Creation and has worked full time in research, writing, and speaking on origins. "

This is your source? Please.

183 posted on 05/30/2007 5:33:01 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Never insult small minded men in positions of power.)
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To: fortheDeclaration
Ok so you didn't threaten me (not my opinion, but for the sake of the discussion I will concede the point)- don't preach to me.

Ok so if you are so good with the Bible answer this for me. do you believe EVERY word of the Bible to be true and exactly what your God wanted to relay to you? If so please state the version you believe in so I can be sure we are discussing the same thing.

185 posted on 05/30/2007 5:36:55 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$ (Never insult small minded men in positions of power.)
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To: fortheDeclaration
Mutation rates can now be determined directly by comparing the mtDNA of many mother-child pairs. Using the new, more accurate rate mitochondrial Eve lived only about 6,000 years ago (In the Beginning, compelling evidence for Creation and the Flood, Walt Brown, Ph.D. 7th edit.2001, pg.229)

Your dear Mr. Brown references Ann Gibbons for this statement. Let's see what Ms. Gibbons also says about man originating from apes ...

Ann Gibbons and Elizabeth Culotta

Wind back the clock 5 million to 23 million years to the Miocene, and parts of Eurasia and Africa would seem like the planet of the apes. "If you could have walked from Spain to China 10 million years ago, you'd have seen an amazing diversity of apes," says University of Texas paleoanthropologist John Kappelman, who estimates that no less than 30 different types of early apes lived during the Miocene. But after this spectacular flowering, nearly all these apes became extinct, with only one lineage surviving to give rise to modern apes and humans. Although there have been plenty of candidates for this distinction, including chimpanzee-sized apes from Europe called Oreopithecus and Dryopithecus, anthropologists have had only fragmentary fossils to tell them which one.

Now, thanks to new fossil finds, two African species are seeking prime ancestral spots on the modern ape family tree. New "apelike" arm and ankle bones from one candidate, Kenyapithecus, indicate that this 14-million-year-old primate was "the best, most likely ancestor of humans, chimps, and gorillas," say paleoanthropologists Monte McCrossin and Brenda Benefit of Southern Illinois University. And another team has proposed a larger tree dweller called Morotopithecus as an even earlier ancestor. In a report on page 401 , Northern Illinois University anthropologist Daniel Gebo and his colleagues identify modern features of this ape's back and shoulder, and date the fossils at 20.6 million years old. That would push the emergence of a modern ape-like body plan back by 5 million years and force researchers to "rethink all of the relationships of apes in the Miocene," says University of Missouri paleoanthropologist Carol Ward.

Kenyapithecus has been a contender for human ancestry ever since the 1960s, thanks to face bones and teeth that set it apart from other Miocene apes. But other parts of Kenyapithecus's skeleton turned out to look more primitive, and it was pushed to an outlying branch of the ape family tree--outside the African ape group, which includes modern gorillas, chimps, and humans (see diagram). Now, however, McCrossin and Benefit claim that new fossils found last summer on Maboko Island in Kenya's Lake Victoria bring Kenyapithecus back in the African ape family.

201 posted on 05/30/2007 10:27:05 AM PDT by ColdWater
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