Giuliani: No Abortion Litmus Test: "it's best to allow for choice [abortion]"

News Max ^ | May 13, 2007 | From Giuliani Interview on FOX News Sunday

[paltz]

Please elaborate with examples.

[zerosix]

Hey, Rudy cheats on his two former wives, has his mistress (third wife) hanging out at the Gracie Mansion, supports gay "unions" and abortion, he wins Mayoral races in NYC, gee, what about that is incongruous with conservatism?

So he wants to have "no litmus" test for the Supremes -- so do the liberals (no litmus test unless someone believes in life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, that is.)

No Rudy, you may not get my vote in any primary nor in a general election even if the alternative is President Hillary.

I obey a higher authority than the Republican Party.

[Clemenza]

1. Bernie Kerick, Ray Harding, Ninfa Segarra, Alan Placa.

2. Let's see: a second term dominated by firings/attrition of top staff, an obession with personal press at the expense of actually running the city, taking credit for the work of Jack Maple, getting bogged down in petty issues (the Virgin Mary fiasco, street vendors, etc>) at the expense of actually relieving property taxes or BO taxes, in all a total dereliction of duty that caused him to receive well deserved approval ratings in the area of 30%.

Of course, a glorified stump speech in front of some burning buildings and all of a sudden he is Churchill. Puh-leeze.

Thankfully, Rudy's celebrity is fading and he will be cast into the scrap heap of the 1990s (along with, hopefully, the Clintons).

[stephenjohnbanker]

“No Rudy, you may not get my vote in any primary nor in a general election even if the alternative is President Hillary”

Not even if hell froze over : )

Bump!

[CA Conservative]

Here on freerepublic, where abortion is the only real issue facing America and the world, many have decided that any choice in that matter is anathema to them.

Unlike you, I will not presume to speak for anyone other than myself. However, the problem with Rudy is not limited to the abortion issue - it is just the most egregious manifestation of the problems with Rudy.

In addition to the abortion issue, there is his abysmmal record on 2nd amendment issues; his open support of gay rights and illegal immigrants; his history of poor judgment in choosing judges and key personnel (think Bernard Kerik); etc.

The only two arguments I hear in favor of Rudy are, 1)"He is the only one who can beat Hilary"; and,2)"He will be strong on the WOT."

In the first case, it is doubtful Rudy could win the general election, because while winning the primary he will have alienated at least 20-30% of his own party's base (social conservatives). The only way any Republican can win is if they hold on to their own base and pick up a lot of independents and conservative Dems.

In the second case, there are a number of people running on the Republican side (and a couple who may be running) who would be every bit as strong as Rudy on the WOT - he doesn't have a monopoly on that claim.

[paltz]

1. Ray Harding, Ninfa Segarra, Alan Placa.

I suppose you would have preferred another David Dinkins term. These guys were responsible for delivering 50,000 signatures for the liberal party line, which Rudy needed to add to his vote tally in order to win his first election. I haven't seen you out petitioning lately, but here is an update: there are WAY more registered DEMS in NYC than registered REPS, therefore we run our guys on various party lines to get as many votes as possible from registered voters. 2 Let's see: a second term dominated by firings/attrition of top staff, an obession with personal press at the expense of actually running the city, taking credit for the work of Jack Maple, getting bogged down in petty issues (the Virgin Mary fiasco, street vendors, etc>) at the expense of actually relieving property taxes or BO taxes, in all a total dereliction of duty that caused him to receive well deserved approval ratings in the area of 30%.

The late Jack Maple's anti-crime initiative was very effective...However, without Giuliani in office, it would have never been implemented. Do you truly believe Dinkins would have allowed it...PLEASE. He would have thrown Maple out on his ass. Giulani instead took the hits of being called a "racist" everyday for implementing that initiative. Maple was never in that crossfire. The "going down in a blaze of glory" campaign strategy simply doesn't work in NYC.

The Virgin Mary "fiasco". Gee, when the City Council has 47 liberal Dems and 3 republicans...guess what a GOP NYC mayor's veto power is on city funded art? Giuliani spoke out against it, but the city council will have the ultimate say...unfortunately.

Of course, a glorified stump speech in front of some burning buildings and all of a sudden he is Churchill. Puh-leeze.

Only a mayor who has supported the NYPD(Even when Cops were being attacked...which NEVER happened when a Dem mayor was in office) and the FDNY before and after 9/11 earned the respect of the bravest and finest. How often did he stand up for the NYPD when NO OTHER city official would.

But who knows? maybe you miss the triple x theaters and prostitutes who populated Times Sq. I guess it was Rudy's "incompetence" that got rid of them...huh? Maybe its the Squeege men who used to threaten my mother, that you miss?

Tax Hikes? I'll refer to Deroy Murdock here:

http://www.nationalreview.com/murdock/chart_murdock02-13-07.html

	New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's Fiscal Record: 1993-2001
		1993	2001	1993-2001
	Murders	1,927	618	-67.9%
	Overall crime	430,460	155,414	-63.9%
	Vehicle thefts	111,622	34,311	-69.3%
	Top personal-income-tax rate	4.46%	3.54%	-20.6%
	Tax burden: Overall	8.8%	7.3%	-17.0%
	Tax burden: Family of four earning $75,000	15.0%	12.1%	-19.3%
	Tax burden: Family of four earning $50,000	13.5%	10.3%	-23.7%
	Tax burden: Family of four earning $25,000	10.9%	7.2%	-33.9%
	Hotel-tax rate	6.0%	5.0%	-16.7%
	Hotel-occupancy rate	69.5%	84.6%	21.7%
	Hotel-tax revenue ($ millions)	115	235	104.3%
	Commercial-rent tax for firms paying $250K+ in rent below Manhattan's 96th St.	6.0%	3.9%	-35.0%
	Commercial-rent tax for all other firms elsewhere in New York City	6.0%	0.0%	-100.0%
	Companies subject to commercial-rent tax	80,000	5,000	-93.8%
	Commercial-rent tax revenue ($ millions)	630	377	-40.2%
	Commercial carting costs ($/cubic yard) after crackdown on Mafia trash trucks	14.20	7.70	-45.8%
	Average, annual growth in NYC inflation	-	-	3.9%
	Average, annual growth in NYC government spending	-	-	2.9%
	City-funded employees: Police - uniformed officers	36,340	40,710	12.0%
	City-funded employees: Board of Education - pedagogues	69,002	77,843	12.8%
	City-funded employees: All others	117,494	97,338	-17.2%
	City-funded employees: Total	222,836	215,891	-3.1%
	Children in foster care	47,509	29,705	-37.5%
	Welfare recipients	1,112,490	469,142	-57.8%
	Unsold, abandoned (In rem), city-owned housing units	30,358	6,733	-77.8%
	Construction permits	46,048	71,421	55.1%
	Unemployment rate	10.4%	5.7%	-45.2%
	Private employment	2,703,600	3,115,200	15.2%
	Personal income ($ billions)	202.9	310.5	53.0%
	Population	7,329,079	8,008,278	9.3%
	Sources: "Restoring Accountability to City Government"; Presentation by Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani, December 19, 2001; http://www.nyc.gov/html/records/rwg/html/2001b/121901_files/frame.htm Preliminary Fiscal 2001 Mayor's Management Report (Summary Volume); http://www.nyc.gov/html/ops/downloads/pdf/2001_mmr/0201_summary.pdf Fiscal 2001 Mayor's Management Report (Agency Narratives); http://www.nyc.gov/html/ops/downloads/pdf/2001_mmr/0901_vol1.pdf Tax Rates and Tax Burdens in the District of Columbia: a Nationwide Comparison, 1993 and 2001 (Office of the Chief Financial Officer, Government of Washington, D.C.). New York City Department of Finance Note: Giuliani was the 107th mayor of the City of New York from January 1, 1994 to December 31, 2001.
	Compiled by Deroy Murdock, contributing editor, National Review Online - February 13, 2007.

[cpforlife.org]

"The image you posted reminds me of the liberal tactics used against rudy when he was mayor. The Nazi reference is truly democrat inspired. take a bow."

Let me guess. You're a "progressive" or a "moderate" who doesn't see the 47 million babies aborted in the US since Roe v Wade as another holocaust? Rudy Ghouliani fully supports the abortion holocaust which puts the Nazi reference in historiaclly accurate context. It's very unplesant, but true.

Abortion: the Silent Holocaust was written by Fr. John Powell, S.J. (Click on “abortion: books” then scroll.) It is one of the most important books on the subject ever written. This book has overwhelming importance for readers from high-school age onward, as well as adult study. The author speaks directly to the reader as few writers can. He takes you along his personal journeys from his studies in Germany and tour of the death camp in Dachau, through his work in the pro-life movement.

[Polybius]

Giuliani has some explaining to do (the Planned Parenthood donations)...

Not to defend Giuliani but I have always liked this quote attributed to Willie Brown:

"If you can't take somebody's money and then turn right around and screw 'em, you don't belong in this business." :-)

[KoRn]

What I’d like to know is how in the hell is this guy even a “front runner” in a GOP primary?!? I’m not a Republican, though I tend to vote like one, so I’m not qualified to fuss about the goings on within the party, but it all seems out of place to me. Rudy is a guy, who if nominated, would be more liberal on abortion, gun control, big government, and other things than the likely democrat nominee would be in a general election.

How did he become a “front runner”? Is he just someone the media, combined with polling organizations pushed on us? After all, it IS the media who decides who is a “front runner” and who isn’t. In my opinion, if he wins the nomination, the Republican party should just turn out the lights and shutdown operations.

[Clemenza]

You can copy and paste Deroy's stats again, but this does not change the fact that NYC remains one of the WORST places to do business in, has had sluggish economic growth relative to other parts of the country even DURING Rudy's term, and remains a "worker's paradise."

Rudy's defenders love to point to the "reduction in crime" but OTHER CITIES DID THE SAME due to LARGER DEMOGRAPHIC FACTORS involved. Not only that, but "normal" American DID NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH SQUEEGEES AND HOMELESS NUTCASES like NY did, so bragging about all but eliminating such maladies of urban life mean nothing to someone from suburban Wichita.

Personally, I think that Rudy's b-tch JP Avalon will be crying in his Cosmo when Rudy doesn't get through the primaries. Sorry, but America is not ready for a Mayor from a majority nonwhitechristian city with a proclivity towards megalomanical behavior, and ignorance of our constitutional heritage, and a tendency to exaggerate his achievements. Don't get me started on his foreign policy ideas, which run the gamut from third-person translations of Commentary Articles to the menus at Chinese Restaurants.

[paltz]

Your guess is incorrect. What is correct, however, is I do take personally a campaign that uses a typical democrat insult towards republicans that has been used against ALL of us at some point. Am I pro-life?...yes. Do I support Rudy's run for the White House...no. In fact, I still haven't even started to support a current GOP candidate who has declared. However, because you want to continue using nazi insults(which I fight against EVERY day in the city I live in) towards a primary candidate, don't ever bitch about being called a Nazi yourself. After all, you're just perpetuating the insult amongst the party. I know you have good intentions for the cause, I and have learned a great deal from the pro life ping list over the years...so much so I've used many of the interesting facts and figures from that ping list when arguing with a liberal who has just called me a "NAZI" for being pro-life.

However, I also believe that we shoouldn't be tearing apart GOP primary candidates to the point that they can't be resurrected and perhaps use their talents somewhere else. Should Giuliani be ina position where he's deciding social policy and abortion funding in the U.S.?....no. However, his experience with security issues are still valuable and may be applied else where should a GOP presidential candidate take the white house.

[Polybius]

The only two arguments I hear in favor of Rudy are, 1)"He is the only one who can beat Hilary"; and,2)"He will be strong on the WOT."

I disagree with 1.

Hillary is so toxic that the only way I see a President Hillary Rodham Clinton would be for Giuliani to win the GOP primaries and then having conservatives split the "I Hate Hillary" vote thereby getting Hillary elected POTUS with 43% of the popular vote as happened with Bill Clinton in 1992.

If the American primary voters choose Giuliani (don't blame "the GOP" --- it's voters like you and me and the idiot that lives next door that choose who the Party nominees will be), we really need to breathe into a paper bag and discuss what a 1992 Nightmare Scenario with a split anti-Clinton vote and Hillary Rodham Clinton as POTUS will do to America.

As far as 2., I have come to the sad conclusion that George W. Bush simply cannot communicate and that anybody that is semi-eloquent could do a better job on the WOT.

Last week, I listened to W. on the radio saying that he told Democrats that there were serious consequences to abandoning Iraq and he just stumbled over his words saying absolutely nothing in particular except that there were "consequences" without listing a single one.

It was painful to listen to.

[mtntop3]

Giuliani’s stance on judges is identical to that of George W. Bush, no litmus test, and no asking how they will rule on cases that may appear before the court.

You are quite mistaken in regard to "W" who has indicated his opposition to routine abortion thousands of times. How can you not know this??

[paltz]

You can copy and paste Deroy's stats again, but this does not change the fact that NYC remains one of the WORST places to do business in, has had sluggish economic growth relative to other parts of the country even DURING Rudy's term, and remains a "worker's paradise."

Considering the amount of new businesses that appeared in New York during his term, I find that hard to believe. New commercial office space was being snatched up by new companies at an incredibel rate. "workers paradise"? That's like complaining that Reagan didn't do enough to get rid of all the socialism in Europe.

Rudy's defenders love to point to the "reduction in crime" but OTHER CITIES DID THE SAME due to LARGER DEMOGRAPHIC FACTORS involved. Not only that, but "normal" American DID NOT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH SQUEEGEES AND HOMELESS NUTCASES like NY did, so bragging about all but eliminating such maladies of urban life mean nothing to someone from suburban Wichita.

Crime and ACLU lawyers are unfortunate facts in every state, so giving an example of what could be accomplished isn't so unusual nationwide. In fact, it was Rudy who fought against ACLU lawyers(and won) when deinstitutionalized mental patients(some who had TB) refused to take their meds...a move Dinkins refused to ever do. The ongoing wars between Rudy and ACLU happened often, but unlike previous admins, he chose the saftey of the city first.

[Clemenza]

Check out population trends and per capita investment inflows outside of the financial sector, and you will see that NYC did not have the level of economic growth that was experience in Northern Virginia, Charlotte, and other cities in the south and west, which, btw is where most of the population and economic growth is taking place in this country.

May I point you in the direction of Joel Kotkin?: http://www.joelkotkin.com/

[paltz]

That’s been happening all over NY State way beore Giuiliani even came into office. Why do you think Reagan was the lat GOP president to ever be elected in NY in 1984? I can assure you it wasn’t Rudy’s fault but a change in the demo that was not advantageous to the GOP at all. To blame Rudy for not being able to untangle the Decades long democrat rule in NYC in 2 terms is absolute nonsense especially considering the tax cuts he did manage to pass.

[Clemenza]

My point is that, compared to other major GOP figures (J. Bush, Owens, Romney, and even Tommy Thompson), G’s record is rather subpar. Even if you limit his job evaluation to “urban management”, he is outclassed by Richard Daley and Stephen Goldsmith.

[kenth]

a Stalinist who will sweep away our constitutional rights in a heartbeat and sell out our country to third world status in record time.

---

If Rudy holds some of the same convictions; i.e. gun control, etc., how is he that different from Hillary? You claim to not have made a choice yet, but your entire position on this thread has been one to equate non-Rudy candidates as pre-destined losers and his opposition as election spoilers.

Regarding your idea that other candidates would be a recast Ross Perot, it could be argued that Rudy himself is in the running for that spot. Rudy and his supporters are the ones abandoning conservative principles and running full tilt to the left.

[paltz]

You seem to be poo pooing the fact that Rudy substantially improved a city that has a much larger population than most states in the Union, yet have shown no proof that he left the city any worse or for that matter the same than when he was elected.

[cpforlife.org]

Nazi references are used haphazardly and most know when it’s inaccurate. Often times it overshadows the message that’s trying to be conveyed so I paused before using the image. I did use it because it is completely accurate.

The historical connections between Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood, and Hitler and his Nazi death machine are wide and deep. The whole abortion industry of today is on par with Hitler Mengele Goebbels and company, only far deadlier.

And that is not hyperbole:

I challenge everyone reading this thread to order and read the book linked in the above post 87. Also visit the AMERICAN HOLOCAUST MEMORIAL website. A former abortion mill.

Josyp and Olena Terelya (above) visited the MEMORIAL in 2003 to be a witness to life and speak of the abominable Holocaust of Innocent babies (HIS WORDS) in America and around the world by infamous organizations like Planned Parenthood. Josyp spent 20 years in Soviet prisons, labor camps and psychiatric hospitals because he fought for the rights of all Ukrainian Catholics to practice their faith.

I regret not driving to Baton Rouge that day to meet these incredible people. My friend who founded the Memorial told me that Mr. Terelya had to quickly walk outside the building after seeing the 3 killing rooms. After he calmed down he explained the overwhelming rush of emotions the place brought back from his past. He actually said it was worse than what he endured. After all the brutal torture he endured and evil he witnessed in the USSR, Josyp had to walk outside to gain composure at what he saw in the Memorial. He said that the worldwide holocaust of abortion, HIS WORDS, is far worse than any other atrocity in history.

Josyp is the author of "Witness" which revealed the persecutions in the USSR against Catholics who would not disavow their faith and the miraculous intercessions and apparitions of the Blessed Virgin Mary in the Ukraine.

Columnist Jack Anderson said about Terelya’s “Witness”, "Another Alexander Solzhenitsyn is crying out to us from deep within the Soviet prison system."

=======================================================

“Abortionists kill more children than terrorists” - Rabbi Yehuda Levin "He who destroys his own children…who wrecks the handiwork of G-D…brings hunger, plague, and the sword upon the world." -Zohar, Shemos (Exodus)

"Abortion is murder, plain and simple." -Rabbi Moshe Sternbuch, Da Ma Shetoshiv

The Silent Holocaust in Israel website.

==========================================================

So paltz, just because the opposition uses the Nazi reference in their typical lying way should not stop it from being used when done so accurately.