Posted on 05/04/2007 3:35:58 AM PDT by theothercheek
The lede in this Wall Street Journal editorial about Turkey’s tumultuous elections – and the threat of yet another military coup (1960, 1971, 1980, 1997) – absurdly describes the EU-wanna be this way: "The Muslim world's liveliest democracy has long been a work in progress, but the stakes just got a lot higher … Turkey's future as a pluralistic, free society is on the line." Since Turkey is as democratic, pluralistic and free as any Muslim country can ever be (which is to say, not very) let’s deconstruct this nonsense:
† Democracy: Democracies do not have to worry about military coups. 'Nuff said.
† Pluralistic: Turkey is 99.8 percent Muslim; Turks who convert to Christianity are routinely prosecuted and jailed for "insulting Islam" (Turks are apparently so insecure they get insulted at the drop of a fez). ... Three Christian employees of a bible publishing company (two of them converts from Islam) were savagely murdered by a group of Islamist students in April (according to one as yet uncorroborated report The Stiletto has seen, they were disemboweled, castrated and beheaded). ... Since January, three Catholic priests have been murdered.
† Free society: The Turkish parliament is moving to block Web sites that insult Kemal Ataturk (for instance, by suggesting he is homosexual). ... More than 60 fiction and nonfiction writers have been prosecuted for "insulting Turkishness" (typically by acknowledging the Armenian Genocide as settled history) under Article 301 of the Turkish Penal Code. ... Just as in any totalitarian regime, all Turkish schoolchildren – including those of Armenian descent whose ancestors were murdered by Ottoman Turks – are required to recite "The Turkish Oath" in school swearing allegiance to the cult of Ataturk, and proclaiming their happiness at being Turks. ... Nationalists have infiltrated all levels of government – the police, the judiciary, municipal governments – and enabled the high-profile assassination of Armenian journalist Hrant Dink (second item, The Daily Blade, February 5, 2007). ... Turkish operatives have carried out an international campaign of intimidation and harassment against a Turkish historian who has written several books about the Armenian Genocide (third item, The Daily Blade, March 7, 2007).
Turkey’s tiny Christian population is not living in a democratic, pluralistic and free society. These Turkish citizens are living in fear of their lives. But don’t expect to read about any of this in The Wall Street Journal, which must use Armenian Genocide denial as a litmus test when hiring editorial and opinion writers (third item, The Daily Blade, March 2, 2007).
NOTE: In case I did not put all the links in correctly and you need to refer to the original source to access a link, this is the second item in a feature called The Daily Blade, and follows an article titled, "Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society Calls Lou Dobbs’ Comments Slamming Illegal Immigrants Hate Speech Propaganda.”
I do understand this, but in this case it isn’t true. The Turkish Constitution established by Ataturk gives the military the role of defender of the secular state. This means that if the Islamists ever reached a comeback and tried to impose Islamic rule the military has a duty to intervene and prevent that from happening.
All the atrocities you mentioned did happen, but they were done by Islamic criminals, much as lynchings done in my state (Alabama, years ago). Not legal, not moral, not Christian, but they still occurred and local law enforcement turned a blind eye on it.
The fact that the Turkish military has stated they will not allow a return to Islamic rule and that Islamic atrocities have occurred just shows the power of such a perverted ideology (my opinion, shared by many). I would applaud the Turkish military’s efforts to defend their secular constitution.
Our own government’s position, and the position of the EU is that the people of Turkey should elect whichever leader they choose without interference from the military. If they choose to elect Islamists, then that is the will of the people. I personally will not be happy about it - and neither will the Christians living in Turkey who are in danger as it is - but you can’t call yourself a democracy if you do not abide by the will of the people. So matter how you slice it - whether Islamists are in power or secularists are - Turkey is NOT a democracy.
I have a friend who works on Turkish films and tv shows. They depict Catholic priests as evil, with Moslems literally being condemned to hell by God for dealing with Catholics. The themes described to me are as virulent as anything the nazis said about the Jews. The films are being dubbed for use in America with these topics “downplayed”. It appears to me their whole society is soaked in hatred of Christianity and the West. sadly.
What else would you expect? Our government and the EU are run by blithering, mouth breathing, retards. Muslims are incapable of governing a free society and the writers of the Turkish constitution understood that, unlike the morons in Washington and Brussels.
Later read.
Yup.
No, and neither is the United States. Rather, we are a Republic with a representative democracy based on the Constitution. There is a difference. For example, I've taken an oath of enlistment numerous times; that oath was on the US Constitution--not the people, not the government, but on the Constitution with a vow to protect it against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
The military of Turkey actually have a spelled out role in the Turkish constitution, unlike the US. Their constitution states that the military will prevent an Islamic republic from taking place.
Look, I don't have a dog in this fight, but the will of the people of Turkey can be carried out in many different ways, and certainly is so if their own constitution is followed.
This is semantics. You can call the government secular but the people themselves are Muslim. Remember how “progressive” Afghanistan and Iran once were? Turkey will eventually go the same way. Because of Kemal Ataturk they may not wear headscarves, but they will continue to kill their Christian citizens. That will NEVER change.
I looked at the most current Turkish Constitution (1982) and could not find anything that codifies a role for the military in removing an Islamist government by force. Several Web sites providing commentary on the constitution note that the military sees itself as the guardian of Ataturk’s vision of a secular Turkey, but that Ataturk himself wanted a separation between civilian government and the military. If you can provide a link to the section of the Turkish constitution to which you refer, I would like to learn more about this. Thanks.
Its not in the constitution. Its stated in Article 35 of the Turkish Armed Forces Internal Service Law dated January 10th, 1961 as “It is the duty of the Turkish Armed Forces to support and protect the Turkish homeland and the Turkish Republic defined by the Constitution”.
Nobody takes those movies seriouly. They were shot in the 1970’s along with loads of porno movies because movies dealing with current matters or politics were banned by a cersorship board. They were also aimed at strengthening nationalism in the country which was at that time rapidly shifting to the Left.
BTW just because you couldn't produce a film on current events doesn't mean your next idea should be to depict Catholics as evil. It seems to me the people who just slaughtered those folks at the Bible company would take it seriously.
You’re forgetting the fact that back in the 1400’s Catholics weren’t exzctly a shining example of tolerance. Those movies are usually set around the mid 1400’s when Catholics were burning people alive just because they weren’t Catholic. Anyway, what about all those American movies which show Turks as evil? A really small example would be MASH. Do you remember one good Turkish soldier in that series?
WHen did "promoting democracy" become a conservative idea anyway? Its Wilsonianism (ie leftist) IMHO.
The rise of islamist parties that feed on the ignorance of the rural peasents and lower middle classes illustrate the fact that "democracy" is idiotic in the Islamic world. You need a force within the nation to defend secularism against barbarism. In Turkey, that force is the military.
BTW: F-ck Makarios!
The Turkish tv episode I was told about took place in modern times and the Moslem woman used a Catholic priest to cast an evil spell on someone because only a Catholic priest would do something that evil. The woman gets condemned to hell not for the spell, but for going to a priest.
“I am unaware of Mash’s stereotyping of Turkish soldiers.”
Well, to be fair, Turk2 is rather accurate on that point. American movies and TV shows consistently portray Turks as evil and very stereotypically. Two prime examples of this are Midnight Express and Lawrence of Arabia, two movies where literally every single Turkish character is evil if not an outright rapist. Even the West Wing falsely portrayed Turkey as a country where the government executes adulterous women (kinda impossible as adultery isn’t a crime and they don’t have the death penalty)
I remember what show you're refering to and that show is aired on something similiar to an evangelical channel here and aims to deter people from engaging in heretic acts such as casting spells etc. and if you watch the rest of the show you'll see that horrible things happen to the person who asks for the spell and nothing at all happens to the priest.
And just talking about a myth that Catholic priests cast spells is crazy. Absolutely crazy. So I should start a myth that moslem clerics do that? You would want that on American TV?
You could not and would not have a TV show in America teaching that Moslem clerics cast spells on people. But he says that is an "urban myth" about Catholic priests in Turkey. No wonder they would slit the throat of Bible company employees.
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