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To: LeGrande

You said — “So you don’t have any problem with Jehovahs Witnesses, Mennonites, Mormons, Baptists, Greek Orthodox, Church of England, or any of them being called Christians?”

Note that the issue of being saved is not membership or attendance in a church or denomination. That’s what we are talking about. And you’ll note that it’s knowing the true Christ as we find described in the Bible.

The reason why I say that is simply because Jesus Himself said there would be many who would come saying that he was Christ or another one was. Like, for example — Islam says, in that they respect Jesus, too — but not for who Jesus is, according to what God’s word says. Islam respects Jesus as simply a man, who did not even die on the cross. They said he did not die, but will return on the last day (and help get rid of all the Jews, too, in the process). Well, you might use the “name” Jesus — but you’re not describing the Jesus that the Bible says He is. You might as well be describing anyone else in history. That’s not Jesus. The Bible even says that if one does not accept the fact that Jesus did die and was raised from the dead, that a Christian’s faith is in vain (basically because that would mean there is no forgiveness for sins and we all are “yet” still in our sins and condemned by God).

And likewise, the Jews recognize Jesus but say he was not the Messiah of Israel, that he was not the Son of God (i.e, Son of God, specifically meaning being of the divine nature, having been always existent, there never having been a time when He did not exist, and so, the eternally, self-existent, uncaused being, an inseparable part of the eternal (i.e, before the time the universe and beings and other spirit entities ever existed) Godhead, of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

So, if they say he’s not the Messiah, he’s not part of the divinity of the Godhead — then they are not describing the Jesus of the Bible. They are describing someone else. And whoever that someone else is — does “not save” anyone from their sins.

And so, in all that, as long as whatever group a person goes to — preaches the Jesus of the Bible, for salvation — *that person* — who accepts *this Jesus* as His personal savior, is a Christian on the basis of what the Bible says. They are *not* a Christian on the basis of going to a church. They are not a Christian on the basis of belonging to a church. They are not a Christian because a “church” is Christian.

Churches are not “Christian”. Churches cannot be saved. Only people can be saved. All a group does is simply “teach” and “preach” the Word of God. Now, one can look at whatever is taught and see if it is — indeed — in the Bible or not. But, the church is not “Christian” because only people can be Christian. The church can (however) be said to teach Christian doctrines or not teach Christian doctrines. If one wants to know if that is so, simply compare what they preach and teach — to the Bible. You’ll find out.

Thus — if the person, himself or herself — accepts Jesus as Savior (the One described as the Messiah of Israel, as the eternally, uncaused, self-existent being of the Godhead, having been here, prior to the creation of the universe [as one part of the eternal Godhead of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit]) — that particular Jesus — then their sins are forgiven (that Jesus having paid the penalty) and they shall have eternal life with that Jesus.

I emphasize this, because there are so many “false Jesuses” out there, of the cult groups, or the completely non-Christian groups (like Islam), that one cannot simply say “Jesus” and be done with it. It’s the *Jesus of the Bible* that we’re talking about — no other.

THEREFORE, any group, any person, any church, any denomination who preaches *that Jesus* will be telling the listener what they need to know to become saved (the Salvation which is offered by the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob). And *that person* (i.e., the “listener” to that message of Jesus) will then be saved, according to what the Bible clearly tells us. The “church” or “denomination” will have *absolutely nothing* to do with them being saved — nothing at all.

It matters not who gives the message, what groups gives the message or what the name of the denomination is — as long as it’s the message that the Bible tells. That’s the key thing. And it’s not the church who saves, and it’s not the “church” who “is saved” (i.e., by being called “Christian”).

Churches (i.e., the institution and the “organization”) cannot be saved. They are inanimate objects. It’s only the *people* who can be saved. And they will be saved by accepting the *true Jesus* of the Bible — and no other.

Regards,
Star Traveler


68 posted on 04/28/2007 4:56:41 PM PDT by Star Traveler
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To: Star Traveler
Now I think I understand ^_^ You don't believe in the God of the Old Testament. All you believe in is the God of the New Testament. That is why you think your God is different than the God of the Jews or the Muslims.

It is also very enlightening that you describe a Christ that is different than the Christ described in the scriptures.

Thus — if the person, himself or herself — accepts Jesus as Savior (the One described as the Messiah of Israel, as the eternally, uncaused, self-existent being of the Godhead, having been here, prior to the creation of the universe [as one part of the eternal Godhead of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit]) — that particular Jesus —

There are no scriptures describing Christ as the Eternally, uncaused, self-existent being, prior to the creation of the Universe. The Jesus you are describing is not the "*Jesus of the Bible*".

74 posted on 04/28/2007 9:27:18 PM PDT by LeGrande (Muslims, Jews and Christians all believe in the same God of Abraham.)
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