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You said — “Now I think I understand ^_^ You don’t believe in the God of the Old Testament. All you believe in is the God of the New Testament. That is why you think your God is different than the God of the Jews or the Muslims.”

The examples of how the different views and descriptions of “God” are radically different were described up above in Posts #39, #45, #46, #55.

It was at Post #55 that you see the answer to your question of which church is right. And that is where it was pointed out the *radical differences* of who Jesus is — between the three major religions of Judaism, Islam and Christianity. Those different descriptions of Jesus were compared from Islam, to Judaism to Christianity.

And in Post #66, we see what the “Scriptures” are — being those 66 books of the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, written under the Guidance of God, through 40 authors over a period of thousands of years, comprising that integrated book, called the Bible. This is the Bible that God says to not add to or take away from.

And since we’re talking about these Scriptures, it’s obvious that we’re not discussing Islam, because they use different foundational books. And we’re not discussing Judaism, because not only do they not use the New Testament in their teachings, they do not accept Jesus as “the Christ” — that is, the Messiah of Israel.

So, we’re not talking about Islam, we’re not talking about Judaism, and being that it’s Jesus Christ who we’re referring to, that means we’re talking about Christianity.

And, very obviously, we’re also not talking about any cult religions, who might use “other” books (other than the Bible) to justify any *aberrant* doctrines they may have. And the word “cult” is not a “word” that describes some oppressive and “whacked-out group”, necessarily — but rather — is used in the “Christian sense” in that it’s any group who does not describe the true Jesus or does not follow the method of Salvation, as described “in the Scriptures” (i.e., the Bible). The people may be very normal people (who subscribe to the “cult doctrines”) and that’s very well and good — but they simply do not subscribe to the Bible’s method of Salvation as being from Jesus alone, plus other abberant descriptions of Jesus and of God. IN SHORT — they are not Christian doctrines they teach and preach. And that’s the key — “not Christian teachings” from the Bible — and not, on the other hand — that they are some Jim Jones group (that’s not the point of this).

An example of two, which I pick simply because they are two of the biggest non-Christian cults in America — are the Jehovah Witnesses and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (i.e., Mormonism). And so, as long as we understand that we’re talking about “cult” in the Christian sense, then no one will get confused and think we’re talking about Jim Jones and koolaide. The “we” is simply referring to historic Christianity, as taught from the beginning centuries after Jesus was here on earth.

And, we’re simply referring to Christianity as taught from the Scriptures and from *no other sources* — meaning no other “canon” of Scriptures (i.e., something that is purported as coming from God, is the word of God, or coming from a “prophet of God”) — outside of the Scriptures, which are given by God — those 66 books of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation.

Thus, we will not be using (for example) the Book of Mormon or the Pearl of Great Price as any *authoritative source from God* or from some “so-called” Prophet of God, outside of those that the Bible describes. Nor will we be using the Watchtower materials in order to prove or disprove who the true Jesus is. I use those examples, because as I said up above, these are examples of the two largest (non-Christian) cults in America.

If we listen to anyone’s teachings (or writings), we will be gauging those teachings or writings by comparing it to what the Bible says, as it’s the Bible that is our authoritative source (at least for Christians — since we’ve already established that other groups use *different* authoritative sources). Christians only use the Bible for their authoritative source. Christians may listen to “teachings” from others, but these teachings will always be compared to the Bible to see if they are legitimate.

You then said — “It is also very enlightening that you describe a Christ that is different than the Christ described in the scriptures.”

The best place to start for understanding who this Jesus of the Bible is — is to start from what Christians of the early centuries, being the closest to the actual time of Christ and having the benefit of being a mere few generations away from the people who actually saw Jesus alive, directly themselves. We’re separated from that time by a couple of thousand years, although we do have the Bible to always refer to.

Here is what a large group of Christians established, that they understood that the Bible taught about Jesus. That group met at the Council of Nicea, in 325 A.D., describing a “doctrine” of the Christians of that time — which Christians for *all time* to the present, have accepted as 100% true, and taught from the Bible. In fact, it’s considered *so foundational* to the Christians of the world — that *this* is “one point” on which most *all cults* differ. This is one description, from which one can spot just about *all cults* (who are non-Christian) in the world. And that’s specifically the reason why the earily Christians of that time identified it so quickly. They were getting “their cults” popping up like weeds, too (as we are today in our society). It is called the doctrine of the Trinity and it explains Jesus’ position in the Trinity.

I’ll give a description of what they were talking about, by referencing another person’s work on the subject —

The doctrine of the Trinity is central to the uniqueness of Christianity. It holds that the Bible teaches that “God eternally exists as three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and each person is fully God, and there is one God.”{1} So central is this belief that it is woven into the words Jesus gave the church in His Great Commission, telling believers to “ . . . go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit . . .” (Matthew 28:19).

It is not surprising, then, that the doctrine of the Trinity is one of the most denigrated and attacked beliefs by those outside the Christian faith. Both Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses reject this central tenet and expend considerable energy teaching against it. Much of the instruction of the Jehovah’s Witness movement tries to convince others that Jesus Christ is a created being, not having existed in eternity past with the Father, and not fully God. Mormons have no problem with Jesus being God; in fact, they make godhood available to all who follow the teachings of the Church of Latter-day Saints. One Mormon scholar argues that there are three separate Gods—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit—who are one in purpose and in some way still one God.{2} Another writes, “The concept that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God is totally incomprehensible.”{3}

Among the world religions, Islam specifically teaches against the Trinity. Chapter four of the Koran argues, “Say not ‘Trinity’: desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is One God: glory be to Him: (far Exalted is He) above having a son” (4:171). Although Muhammad seems to have wrongly believed that Christians taught that the Trinity consisted of God the Father, Mary the Mother, and Jesus the Son, they reject as sinful anything being made equivalent with Allah, especially Jesus.

http://www.probe.org/content/view/790/91/ [link to reference]

This understanding, is thus *absolutely central* to Christianity. Any departure from it — is a departure from Christianity, and a departure from the “Jesus of the Bible.”

And so, I’m including the complete article referenced above, so there is no misunderstanding on the *fundamental* nature of this to Christianity and to who the “Jesus of the Bible” is.

Understand this doctrine of the Christians from the time of Jesus to the present day, and you will understand what Christianity is. If anyone rejects the doctrine and teaching of Christians from the early time of Christians in Jerusalem to the present-day Christians — then that person rejects Christianity, itself and the Jesus of the Bible.

A summary of the result of the Council of Nicea is seen below —

The Nicene Creed, in its entirety, affirmed belief “. . . in one God, the Father almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, begotten of the Father, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father; by whom all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down and was incarnate and was made man; he suffered, and the third day he rose again, ascended into heaven; from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. And in the Holy Ghost.” {9}

The council acknowledged that Christ was God of very God. Although the Father and Son differed in role, they, and the Holy Spirit are truly God. More specifically, Christ is of one substance with the Father. The Greek word homoousios was used to describe this sameness. The term was controversial because it is not used in the Bible. Some preferred a different word that conveyed similarity rather than sameness. But Athanasius and the near unanimous majority of bishops felt that this might eventually result in a lowering of Christ’s oneness with the Father. They also argued that Christ was begotten, not made. He is not a created thing in the same class as the rest of the cosmos. They concluded by positing that Christ became human for mankind and its salvation. The council was unanimous in its condemnation of Arius and his teachings. It also removed two Libyan bishops who refused to accept the creed formulated by the Council.

[It’s the same referenced link as above]

And see an example of this in the Scriptures, in the book of John. Here, the Apostle of Jesus Christ (one of the 12 Apostles), describes Jesus, as “the Word”. Now, when he refers to “John” (in these verses), he’s referring to “John the Baptist” who baptized Jesus, at which time God the Father (in Heaven) confirmed that Jesus was the Son of God. So, the Apostle John is talking about “John the Baptist” in confirming Jesus as the Son of God and as the Messiah of Israel and as truly God of God, as in one substance and being with the Father in Heaven, not being created, but existing prior to anything that was made or created (verse 3, saying “All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made”)...

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John 1:1-18

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 He was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend F1 it.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe.

8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.

11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.

12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

15 John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’ “

16 And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace.

17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

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And there you have it...

Regards,
Star Traveler