I will agree that the tone on this thread has been “hard core” recently, at best. But I don’t think this started with the conservative wing of this conservative site. For months now, literally, many of these Giuliani supporters have embraced this “we are the Borg” attitude, convinced that without Rudy, the Hildabeast was assured her coronation in Jan 2009. No amount of reasoning, no amount of factual information, would convince them otherwise.
I’ve seen this monster take over posters who I, at least, thought were staunchly pro-life and solidly conservative.
But, apparently, their moral and philosophical principles were compromised by what they perceived to be the pragmatic way out. Rather than having the courage of standing toward their conservative principles, they allowed fear of the Hildabeast to rule their minds. (at least IMHO) This comment only refers to the (formerly) conservative people...a subset of those who were posting.
I know that a number of people, myself included, tried to make these people aware that they’d thrown their support to a solidly non-conservative candidate. I, for one, granted them that after the primary season, the situation might reveal itself better. I, for one, attempted to reason with them...saying that if he came out on top after the primaries, then would be the time to support him, but to try to work to get a CONSERVATIVE nominated until that time.
The funny part about it is that never ONCE did I get even a grudging acknowledgment from a single person with whom I attempted to reason. Not one. I was accused of being a Hillary supporter (barf), I was accused of trying to undermine the GOP, I was accused of worse. No bad language on my part. No foul innuendo. Just for pointing out the FACTS about Mr. Giuliani.
Again, I have nothing against political debate. As long as it is truly debate. Jimrob didn’t start this war, though. Although it is quite apparent that he intends to finish it. So be it.
As most know, I am a Catholic. If I walk into a Baptist Church, I know to be polite. I don’t have to compromise my principles to do so, but it would be extremely poor form for me to start splashing holy water everywhere, pull out my Rosary and start repeating Hail Mary, get a piece of incense and burn it, and so on. Likewise, it would be rude for a Calvinist to walk into a Catholic cathedral and start loudly muttering comments about the whore of Babylon and attempt to smash the statues. I live in Maryland...one of the most solidly “blue” states out there. I, likewise, would not go to Takoma Park (one of the bluest parts of MD) and start screaming epithets about Klinton and the Blue Dress. (I would not, and have not, hesitated to engage in polite, reasoned political discussion...when those socialists manage to attempt to have a cohesive thought...but that’s another discussion)
Well, this is a conservative site. I am sure that a person who is a moderate or left-winger would not be zotted merely for the fact that they hold a particular viewpoint. But they’d better recognize that this ain’t their church and act respectfully and intelligently while they are visiting. Calling conservatives idiots on this, the premier conservative website, is simply not the way to win friends and influence people.
Bug zapping? I, for one, think it’s about time. If, for no other reason, to clear out the Borg so that we can get to some real discussion and, perhaps, help save this country from itself!
(And, btw, you can count me in as a monthly donor type now too...)
That was an excellent post, mark! You summed it up quite nicely.
Wow. Thank you!!!!
Truly excellent post.
bump!
” But I don’t think this started with the conservative wing of this conservative site. For months now, literally, many of these Giuliani supporters have embraced this “we are the Borg” attitude, convinced that without Rudy, the Hildabeast was assured her coronation in Jan 2009. “
A lot of those people have left simply because Rudy was their man, not that they were trying to promote the best chance of defeating Hillary, but because they are true Rudy supporters.
The old-timers can tell me if this is true, but could it be that a lot of the anger involved in their leaving is directed at social conservatism and that Rudy would be some of theirs choice, even if a (more) religious copy of Reagan himself were running?
And once common sense is abandoned, it is nearly impossible to reason with someone who has allowed themselves to be lured and seduced into believing all of the claptrap that passes for ‘pro-Rudy’ arguments.
Rudy Giuliani could very well be the best definition of the term ‘RINO’ that ever came down the pike. Spiff did as much as anyone to expose the hypocrisy of Giuliani with his comparison chart (which was hooted at and derided by the RudyTooters), and yet even when presented with hard, cold EVIDENCE of Rudy’s leftist tendencies based on his OWN WORDS, the zombies are unable to face reality because they remain under the spell of the media-created ‘America’s Heroic 9/11 Mayor’ image.
OK, Rudy did in fact rise to the occasion on 9/11. Nobody is contesting that. But truth be told, what Rudy did is the VERY same thing that ANY mayor of a major metropolitan city would have been expected to do if perchance al-Qaeda had chosen a target OTHER than New York City to crash airliners into. If (for example) 9/11 had seen the Sears Tower in Chicago coming down in flames instead of the WTC, I think that Mayor Richard Daley would very likely have performed as well as Giuliani, and I don’t care if Daley is a Democrat or not, he is as responsible for his city, as Giuliani was for NYC. On 9/11, it wasn’t about political party affiliation, it was about doing one’s duty when faced with a crisis.
But would a heroic performance by Mayor Daley have made him presidential material?
I doubt it. Once you get back to ‘normal’ business, Daley is still a corrupt political hack who did his damnedest to try and help Al Gore steal the 2000 election, and nothing is ever going to erase that disgraceful behavior from his history. Likewise, if you take away the 9/11 experience from Giuliani, he too, is just one more arrogant and belligerent big city mayor, a big-spending liberal who thinks murdering children in the womb is a ‘constitutional right’, that is all too eager to march alongside homosexuals in their NAMBLA-infested parades, whose own personal behavior would be right at home in Hugh Hefner’s Playboy Mansion.
But to return to the main theme of your post Mark, what causes people to abandon true conservative principles in favor of a fake so-called 'conservative' whose only claim to fame is that he happened to be the Mayor of New York on 9/11?
The answer is FEAR. Fear of Hillary. Fear of the Clintons. Fear of the left. Fear of liberals. And I'm not saying that those things should NOT be feared, they should be viewed as one views a rattlesnake under your house, sooner or later that snake is going to strike and when it does, it doesn't care if it's you, your spouse, your children, friends, etc., it is going to strike. But you don't prevent such a snakebite by going out into the desert to find yourself another rattlesnake with the idea that if you throw a second snake under your house, that it will of course fight, bite and kill the first snake.
No, what you'll end up with if you follow that kind of insane strategy, is at the least, TWO venomous snakes who will be capable of biting TWICE the number of victims than before, and at the worst, they'll copulate and make lots of little baby rattlesnakes, and by that time your house is going to be all but inhabitable.
Hillary is a damn snake. No argument. She is every bit (but not quite) the sociopath that her depraved and amoral spouse is, if anything she is colder because while Bill Clinton was defiling and disgracing everything honorable about the Presidency, he was still throwing around that old 'awww shucks' good ol' boy jive, grinnin' away "cause he just cain't hep himself" and too many people bought into that crap (and ignored the one dead on comment that Bob Dole ever made in the '96 campaign when he said "where is the outrage?"). Hillary has absolutely no warmth, real or feigned.
But make no mistake about it: Rudy Giuliani is every bit the same kind of snake that Hillary OR Bill Clinton is, with the exception that he has no Southern accent (real with Bill, fake in Hillary's case). Giuliani was the Clinton 'go to guy' when it came to opposing a ban on partial birth abortion. Giuliani was the guy the Clintons could rely on when it came to undermining the Second Amendment. Giuliani himself said that his positions were "very much like Clinton's", and after the '96 election, Giuliani wasn't at all disappointed with Bob Dole going down to defeat, in fact he said words to the effect that not only had the Clintons done 'good things' for America, he said that Bill Clinton was a 'good and decent man'.
So it boils down to the question: HOW can any true conservative even CONSIDER voting for someone who views the Clintons as someone they have much in common with, who views them as 'good and decent'?
On another thread from Wednesday, 'Christians for Giuliani', one Freeper who still retained their sense made the observation "Christians for Giuliani? That's like Jews for Hitler!" And the comparison could not be more apt. Every single one of Rudy Giuliani's positions is (or should be) totally incompatible and unacceptable to ANY professing Christian, ESPECIALLY his life long support for infanticide, even up to and including the moment before a baby clears the birth canal to enter this world, Rudy Giuliani thought it more important to preserve some 'right' on the part of the mother to have a doctor jam a pair of scissors into the base of the skull of the almost born child, suck out it's brain, and then discard the dead body like garbage.
That is (in the words of Freeper Dr.Zoidberg) every bit as monstrous as something Charles Manson would dream up, in fact there is very little difference between such a barbaric act, and the genocidal insanity that swept millions of Jews into Auschwitz. Rudy Giuliani has stated that the murder of an unborn child isn't as serious a matter as murdering a child already living.
If there is to be 'fear', it should be on the part of every pregnant woman in America, to think that such a eugenicist-minded, murder-condoning, amoral SOB like Rudy Giuliani is being touted as the GOP's only way to win in 2008, because he thinks their unborn child is less than human until it makes it out of their body and into the world.
Until then, that unborn baby is fair game for the abortion-lobby NARAL and THEIR 'go to guy', Rudy Giuliani.
Rudy Giuliani is the wet dream of America's disgraceful 'culture of death', and he has to be stopped.
I know, it's been an amazing, sickening thing to behold. Well, I can only speak for myself - but I'm reminded of an old cigarette ad: "I'd rather fight than switch".
Ahh, now that’s some O’Malley Spirit!
Terra Marique Potens
Thanks.