Posted on 04/21/2007 7:44:44 AM PDT by BnBlFlag
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/fp/flashPollResultsState?pollId=44465
You give up so easily. Just like your rebel ancestors.
Here’s the General’s schedule Stand enjoy
Yeah, right, @sswipe. Took YOUR ancestors FOUR years to beat an army you outnumbered four to one. Woooo. Big accomplishment there. Yeah, I’d brag about that. But in the end it wasn’t men from the north who won, it was conscripted foreigners. YOUR ancestors didn’t win crap — unless you are descended from one of the poor immigrant saps who got snatched off the streets in NY. Hell, I bet YOUR ancestors was one of the snatchers.
If Lincoln believed the fort belonged to the Union he should have declared war before any fighting at Sumter took place.
Declare war on who? You declare war on foreign powers. The south was never recognized as such. There was never any declaration of war in the Civil War. And why would Lincoln declare war before the fighting at Sumter? He already had the fort. There had been no real violence. There was still hope that cooler heads would prevail in the south.
The fact is that the lower south needed to start a war in order to bring the upper south to their side, despite Toombs' warning to Davis, ""Mr. President, at this time it is suicide, murder, and will lose us every friend at the North. You will wantonly strike a hornet's nest which extends from mountain to ocean, and legions now quiet will swarm out and sting us to death. It is unnecessary; it puts us in the wrong; it is fatal."
“So what you’re saying, in essence, is that a southern rebellion based on the protection of property rights negated property rights as one of its first actions.”
LOL! Only if you are a stupid yankee. The first action was to DEFEND property rights — as in rightfully re-claiming Sumter.
“The south was never recognized as such. “
Again, only if you are stupid yankee. The CSA certainly recognized itself as a country and a power.
Ironically, one of the factors that southerners like DeBow identified as signifying the south lagging behind the north economically was the fact that immigrants to the US chose the north over the south by a factor of something like 8-1.
And don't forget the 173,000 freedmen that were in the Union army, too.
Finally, the standard neo-confederate line is that the southern army was a true melting pot, with blacks, whites, Indians, Mexicans, and everyone else fighting side by side. Ask Watie and he'll tell you all about it.
Sorta like "It was necessary to destroy the village i order to save it," huh? So when the South Carolina legislature said, "Resolved, That this state do cede to the United States, all the right, title and claim of South Carolina to the site of Fort Sumter and the requisite quantity of adjacent territory, " they didn't really mean that they were ceding all right, title and claim. They ACTUALLY meant, "We'll let you think you own that land, but after you use federal funds to build a fort on it, we can take it back any time just by saying so." Is that about right? Why should the US government believe ANYTHING South Carolina says, given that?
Doesn't make it so any more than my announcing myself as pope would make it so.
How can I argue with such intellect?
Took YOUR ancestors FOUR years to beat an army you outnumbered four to one.
How long should it have taken? The English Civil War ran 9 years. The Napoleonic wars ran 11. Long about the time the confederacy kicked the bucket, the Taiping Rebellion was ending after 15 years. Bearing in mind that the South was losing virtually from day one - losing territory and men and battles - why are you complaining it took 4 years for the body to hit the floor? The question really should be why did the Southern leadership put their people through all that suffering long after it was clear that they had no chance of winning?
But in the end it wasn’t men from the north who won, it was conscripted foreigners.
A common Southron myth, as if losing to a foreign born soldier was somehow more honorable. But the fact of the matter is that fewer than 25% of all Union soldiers were foreign born.
YOUR ancestors didn’t win crap...
Neither did your's once you get right down to it.
Hell, I bet YOUR ancestors was one of the snatchers.
Nope. My ancestors came over after the rebellion. Some of those immigrants you hold in such contempt.
So? You can declare your independence if you want. Set yourself up as a benevolent dictatorship, make a flag, coin money and print stamps, and even declare yourself Grand High Queen of the Universe. But unless people start bowing and scraping and calling you "Your Majesty" then you aren't queen of anything. You're just another nut.
You couldn’t even understand my intellect, that’s why I came down to your level.
“How long should it have taken? The English Civil War blah, blah, blah.”
Of course you conveniently leave out the 4-1 odds, which is the whole point.
“Bearing in mind that the South was losing virtually from day one - losing territory and men and battles - why are you complaining it took 4 years for the body to hit the floor?”
And that’s suppose to support your point of view? We started off losing and lost everything that followed — and it still took you guys FOUR years! Thanks. I feel even better.
“The question really should be why did the Southern leadership put their people through all that suffering long after it was clear that they had no chance of winning?”
Because, people should always fight tyranny.
“A common Southron myth, as if losing to a foreign born soldier was somehow more honorable.”
No, we had and have great respect for the men who fought for the north regardless of which country they came from. The POINT is, in addition to 4-1 odds you had an endless supply of soldiers.
“Neither did your’s once you get right down to it.”
Didn’t claim they did.
“My ancestors came over after the rebellion. Some of those immigrants you hold in such contempt.”
There was NOTHING contemptuous in my comments, just stated the facts. Your warped logic projected the “contempt.”
Sure it wasn't 12 to 1 odds? Or 14 to 1 odds? Heck, since you're making it up how about 90 to 1 odds?
And that’s suppose to support your point of view? We started off losing and lost everything that followed — and it still took you guys FOUR years! Thanks. I feel even better.
We went easy on you.
Because, people should always fight tyranny.
No really, why?
No, we had and have great respect for the men who fought for the north regardless of which country they came from. The POINT is, in addition to 4-1 odds you had an endless supply of soldiers.
You're excepting yourself from that statement of course?
Didn’t claim they did.
Just complained it took so long to give up.
There was NOTHING contemptuous in my comments, just stated the facts.
Don't like 'contempt'? How about 'whine'?
And you had a defensive war on interior lines. And where do you get 4-1 odds? According to the army's Office of the Chief of Military HIstory, "At one time or another about 2,100,000 men would serve in the northern armies, while some 800,000 to 900,000 men would serve the South. Peak strength of the two forces would be about 1,000,000 and 600,000, respectively."
And you accuse stand watie of irrational hate. I was prepared to take you serious but you are just as predjudiced against the south. You just hate the south. Its useless to try to have a rational debate with people who are bigoted.
That is so immature. I thought I was in an honest adult debate about TWBTS. That comment was just plain crude and stupid. I'm just disgusted with the childishness and plain meaness of your comment.
And don’t forget the Irish that were released from Irish prisons and sent here to fight for the Yankees. They were told if they survived the war, they would be free and an American citizen. You are right. If it had been 1 on 1, the South would have won hands down.
So? You can declare your independence if you want. Set yourself up as a benevolent dictatorship, make a flag, coin money and print stamps, and even declare yourself Grand High Queen of the Universe. But unless people start bowing and scraping and calling you “Your Majesty” then you aren’t queen of anything. You’re just another nut.
I believe it was in the original constitution, the right to secede. It was amended after the war.
i deride/despise ONLY the HATERS, which southerners call DAMNyankees, among the northern population. fyi, i have a LEGION of FRiends in the north.
free dixie,sw
free dixie,sw
the right to secede was in the constitution at the time. It was amended after the war. I forgot to put in the paragraph things in my previous post.
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