Archaeologists Find 3 Prehistoric Bodies In SE Mexico (Tulum - 10-14.5k YO)

Xinhuanet ^ | 4-11-2007 | China View

[MomwithHope]

I almost said the same thing, that you felt like Indiana Jones. That’s funny! In 1986 the large pyramid was only half uncovered, the rest looked like a hill covered with vegetation. The trails could only be walked and it was like a Jones movie. There was one lone vendor at the entrance he was selling small clay pipes made to look like Mayan warriors. We bought 2 of them and after getting them home, realized they had only been dried not fired, they cracked in a couple of places and are still pretty fragile but still whistle.

[blam]

"I don’t think Native americans can be classified as Mongoloid."

Native Americans/American Indians have Sinodont (shovel) teeth (Turner) like most Northern Chinese. Kennewick Man, Spirit Cave man, etc have Sundadont teeth like most SE Asians.

Take this Journey Of Mankind based on the DNA studies of Professor Stephen Oppenheimer. Notice that the haplogroup X arrived early (25,000 ya) at Meadowcroft and became isolated there during the LGM (Last GlacialMaximum).

About 25% of the people in the Ojabiou(sp) tribe (Northern US) have haplogroup X genes, the highest in the Americas.

[blam]

"Because a sense of humor is a terrible thing to lose. "

Here's the email he sent me:

"Why do you think that anyone one this forum cares about your personal life?"

Someone this sour must be depressed and ought to be on medication, IMO.

[Varda]

There are all sorts of reasons related populations have a few separate features. A limited founding population and drift are commonly cited reasons. Individual features in and of themselves don't define races. Turner himself believes that Sinodonty is a very ancient trait. Old enough that it is older than any racial group.

" Journey Of Mankind" is a nice website although it lacks detail. Unfortunately I can't get my pop-up blocker to quit so I didn't find the page where he connects Meadowcroft to Haplogroup X. Meadowcroft has no human remains so I don't see how that can be done.

Nevertheless, a distinct Haplogroup X found among modern Indians shows just how long their ancestors have been in the New World.

"These findings leave unanswered the question of the geographic source of Native American X2a in the Old World, although our analysis provides new clues about the time of the arrival of haplogroup X in the Americas. Indeed, if we assume that the two complete Native American X sequences (from one Navajo and one Ojibwa) began to diverge while their common ancestor was already in the Americas, we obtain a coalescence time of 18,000 ± 6,800 YBP, implying an arrival time not later than 11,000 YBP.

The results of this study point to the following conclusions. First, haplogroup X variation is completely captured by two ancient clades that display distinctive phylogeographic patterns—X1 is largely restricted to North and East Africa, whereas X2 is spread widely throughout West Eurasia.

Second, it is apparent that the Native American haplogroup X mtDNAs derive from X2 by a unique combination of five mutations.

Third, the few Altaian (Derenko et al. 2001) and Siberian haplogroup X lineages are not related to the Native American cluster, and they are more likely explained by recent gene flow from Europe or from West Asia.

Finally, phylogeography of the subclades of haplogroup X suggests that the Near East is the likely geographical source for the spread of subhaplogroup X2, and the associated population dispersal occurred around, or after, the LGM when the climate ameliorated. The presence of a daughter clade in northern Native Americans testifies to the range of this population expansion."link

[beeber]

"That's a good lookin' mummy."

Ha ha! What a freakin' perv.

[trumandogz]

Interesting, since the earth is only 6,000 years old. /sarcasm

[Varda]

Since you brought up Christy Turner, I thought this chapter description was appropriate here.

"Handbook of Paleoanthropology
The Dentition of American Indians: Evolutionary Results and Demographic Implications Following Colonization from Siberia

Christy G. Turner II and G. Richard Scott
This chapter uses dental morphology to make inferences about how the New World was first colonized. The major emphasis is on the initial Macro-Indian migration based on dental traits observed in Paleo-Indian, Archaic, and more recent prehistoric crania. The major results are:
(1) Arctic and Subarctic native dentitions differ enough from those of Macro-Indians to indicate separate migrations.
(2) Clustered MMD values show three Macro-Indian branches of North Americans, South Americans, and mixed North and South.
(3) There is no marked branching depth for these three dental divisions, which fits the hypothesis of a single rapid Paleo-Indian colonization event.
(4) The minimally divergent North and South American dental divisions are most likely the microevolutionary result of dispersal-dependent population structure and lineage effects.
(5) No genetic bottlenecking can be identified at Panama.
(6) The small amount of New World internal dental divergence favors colonization of South America soon after the settlement of North America.
(7) There are no obvious clines, frequency trends, or geographic groupings for individual dental traits. This suggests little or no selection and that after leaving Siberia, population size increased sufficiently to limit genetic drift.
(8) There is no sign of any Old World or Oceanic dental pattern other than Northeast Asian Sinodonty. All things considered, including New World and Siberian linguistics, archeology, genetics, route considerations, and relevant natural history, dental analysis supports the Late Pleistocene Ice-free Corridor, Clovis or epi-Clovis settlement hypothesis, and the Greenberg Amerind or Macro-Indian language evolution model. link

[norton]

This is possisbly the most entertaining list in FR...
Knowledge, oddities, humor, discussion, and, yes, "I was there..." when it applies.

[blam]

"This is possisbly the most entertaining list in FR... Knowledge, oddities, humor, discussion, and, yes, "I was there..." when it applies"

Thanks.

[Veto!]

You must really like the place!

I used to walk on the Florida beach at sunrise every day and dream about Tulum. I felt I lived there in ancient times, knew people there. Really odd, but a persistent story kept emerging in my mind’s eye. Like a movie.

Still haven’t been there as I’m adverse to tourista, which once held me in it’s grasp for three months. But I got as far as calling a travel agent about going for a weekend and eating nothing but saltines and gin. How do you survive Mexico?

[SunkenCiv]

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