Posted on 04/09/2007 8:35:35 AM PDT by kellynla
President Bush will speak on immigration reform.
There are many decent freepers who have stopped posting on this forum because of the irresponsible, nasty posts about the President on threads like this.
That is the truth.
If people don't want it said that their posts are irresponsible and nasty, then perhaps they should be careful to post the truth.
This is not about agreeing with the President on immigration (I don't).
This is about fundamental decency and honesty.
Understand yet?
His sign-up date (only five days old) + His Arguing for Amnesty of Illegals = Something rather trollish.
Even if there was no net cost to the taxpayers for illegal immigration (assuming for the sake of the argument), the massive corruption involved at the Fed/State/Local levels required to tolerate it is a cancer which I believe can end this country.
When elected officials can pick and choose which laws to enforce, and make public declarations that they will completely ignore certain laws, then why as a citizen can’t I do likewise?
That’s the natural progression of things. That’s where we are headed. When enough people realize that they are foolish to comply with laws because enforcement is subjective, then the American Goose is cooked. This is the real danger with Illegal Immigration, IMHO.
Hey chica. No one does. My own posts would not be quite as vitriolic were it not for the constant acerbic and idiotic accusations that anyone NOT for corralling and expelling is for doing nothing.
As for your spew about how Mexicans are paying more than they're costing, you are either uninformed
I never said that. What I said what that the constant and repetitive posting of the same stupid link over and over of immigrants costing us 100 billion per year ignores both the fact that there IS a positive inflow (I am not saying NET positive) and that the "costs" in second generations change dramatically, actually from net negative to net positive (Simon's study, to be fair, dealt with legal immigrants only, which is probably skewed to the positive, since there is a higher percentage of these folks who are high income professionals....., still the numbers are fairly eye-popping).
I do care that some of you insist we support a 21st century economy with 18th century illegal, undereducated, socialistic labor
I am not for socialistic programs, either. Why do I get this recurring idiocy bounced back to me? Are you dishonest and genuinely misrepresenting me, or are you stupid and assume that more liberal ingress/egress automatically means "socialism" because we have socialistic programs? Does it mean "socialism" if I want American women to have babies, so we don't HAVE to import our labor, just because we have socialistic programs that relate to them, too? Are you genuinely so obtuse to think that just because we have socialistic programs, this means that any new peoples (either homegrown or imported) means more socialism? It is obvious you either don't know what the word "socialism" means or you are deliberately misusing it.
The number of ITINs issued in the last few years has increased dramatically,
ITINs are used more frequently nowadays. Let me give you an example why. An acquaintance of mine is a Landscaper. He has a Mexican crew. The IRS sent him a letter about a year ago letting him know that Paco (not his real name) did not have a legit SS number. THEY DID NOT DEMAND HE FIRE PACO! THEY TOLD HIM THAT HE HAD TO HIRE HIM AS A W-2 EMPLOYEE AND CEASE PAYING HIM AS A 1099 CONTRACTOR! As long as they get the money, they don't care. So, Paco now pays in to OUR socialistic programs. This is repeated myriad times in America every day, and the idiotic crap repeated by the heavy breathers here on FR about them all working "under the table" is nonsense. The vast majority of them are W-2 paid and thus prop up OUR socialist system, as they pay in, but can't collect. Many of them do not even file tax returns, and the IRS doesn't say a word. The taxes are paid thru the IRS bagman (the employer) and filing a return only means that the fed has to pay BACK (per: your post) what they witheld, so the IRS says nothing about it.
The issue is far far more complex than your teeth gnashers here in the immigrant forums would make it out to be.
Truth hurts, eh? Gee what a surprise that lashing out is your only recourse.
But I do love the hyperbole and personal attack.......really I do. It makes my case even stronger.
btw, just because I'm the only one posting here about this doesn't mean I'm the only one who thinks it.
So many good people have stopped posting, or limited their posts on this forum because of this irresponsible nastiness, that it's not even funny.
Decent conservatives don't want their President attacked in the same manner as he is attacked by the left on a forum that is supposed to be conservative.
It's ended every civilization throughout history - why do you think the US is any different?
Look, the Republic was a noble experiment that came along just as political enlightenment, which was its era "next big thing", coincided with an empty continent & the industrial revolution.
The growth of federal power, women's suffrage (in that women looked to the state for support), FDR (in that men began looking to the state for support), the 1965 immigration act, etc have all served as various nails in the coffin.
Once a critical mass is achieved where there are more tax recipients (ie voters subject to political manipulation & promises) than tax payers, it's only a matter of time before it's all over except for the crying.
All this doom & gloom is about as meaningful as the libs' doom & gloom about global warming. Human nature cannot be checked; it can only be lived out.
I agree with all that you say. We have schools closing because they can't afford to stay open. It just gets so frustrating.
You have no case. Poll after poll has been taken and between 65% and 85% of the people (general population) polled are against amnesty.
“Decent conservatives don’t want their President attacked in the same manner as he is attacked by the left on a forum that is supposed to be conservative.”
You mean Bushbots.
Decent Conservatives hold conservative principals. Decent Conservatives can admit when the POTUS is wrong...and don’t just CYA. decent conservatives speak out against a policy that will forever change the US....and not for the better. Do a search here on FR and try to educate yourself better to the deeper long term ramifications of what your idol is proposing.
There are probably just as many that have left because they can no longer support the President and his open border policy. That, too is a truth.
I think you are on to the larger disaster that this issue presents.
I am also going to post a comment I made on another Thread that is more appopriate to this one.
*********************************************************
I am greatly offended by the President offering citizenship or a “path to citizenship” to those who pay a fine. It is like the Popes of old selling special dispensation for a price. It is in fact, putting citizenship up for sale.
While I am in total opposition to any sort of citizenship to those who came here illegally, I would rather see it offered for free, on some merit basis, than to sell it. It cheapens the privilege of citizenship and it is an insult to those of us who are already citizens. If they push this through, it will hurt, perhaps mortally, the Republicans chances at the polls in 2008. If Karl Rove thinks these folks will vote Republican, he is smoking rope!
bushbots yada, yada, yada, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz! You must be thrilled with the Dem Congress. Maybe you can get a Dem WH too?
Right now there is exactly one issue that matters and it aint immigration.
Pray for W and Our Troops
Quite true. When the water is on and the sink is over flowing onto the floor, and you can only do one thing, turn off the water or grab a mop, common sense says to turn OFF the water. You can mop up later.
You are really confused.
I am talking about the ugliness and the lies. The hyperbole and the disrespect.
Apparently you approve of lousy language and dishonesty if you defend what I am criticizing.
This is a CONSERVATIVE forum where the truth is supposed to matter, and thought is supposed to supercede emotional bile.
The fact that it's no longer true on threads like this (as on many others), is why so many decent conservatives can no longer stomach being a part of this forum.
That is a FACT.
(btw, your ongoing insults only weaken your case, so maybe you should consider honest debate? Just a suggestion......)
Pay particular attention to the second paragraph.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_(aficionado)
A fan or supporter is someone who has an intense, occasionally overwhelming liking of a sporting club, person, group of persons, company, product, work of art, idea, or trend.
In a few cases, individual fans may become so obsessed with the objects of their infatuation that they become fanboys/fangirls. These fans engage in behaviors that are considered extreme or abnormal. This includes idolatry or other forms of worship, such as creating a personal shrine dedicated to the idol at one’s home, and can sometimes extend to the point of the fans become stalkers.
Actually I did not. I DID call you a fascist socialist collectivist who will surrender freedom in your zeal for expelling....., what was the word you used....? oh yeah, "beaners" I called you on your mindless zeal for invoking RICO statutes and thus expanding the power of the fed, and being willing to turn the country into a police state, rather than face the fact that we have a labor shortage and we just MIGHT want to consider expanding our labor force LEGALLY rather than doing it under the table. I do think the phrase "beaner" is racist cant, but I never accused you of actually BEING a racist. I believe the word may have come from a purple faced vein popping apopleptic rage at being called a faux conservative who is in fact willing to collectivize power in the name of nationalism. Maybe when I pointed out to you that this is a textbook definition of "fascist," you just fritzed out on those last four synapses you have firing up there and made a racist slur, but...., you know, not meaning to. Happens to the best of us.
But naw, I never called you a racist. Wouldn't do that.
Misguided zealot? si senor
Shriveled hater? ayup
Faux conservative? uh huhhhh
but not racist. Never called u one.
ta ta
DoP
There are very few here who approve of it. Threads like this are not forbidden. Irrational people are allowed to post whatever they want as long as it doesn't cross a certain line.
There is no reason in the world for someone who disapproves of the President's policy to leave FR.
None.
Good for you.
I am not against a well run guest worker program. First the borders have to be secured. I am however against “amnesty” (pathway to citizenship), normalization or what ever this weeks euphemism happens to be.
Your words. — but the bozos on this thread who haven’t got a thought in their heads,
YOU have insulted people, too, so get off your high horse already!
And it's also a sure sign that you have lost the debate and are flailing.
Thanks again for proving I was right.
(btw, I'm a Browns' fan and an Indians fan too............. THINK about it, dearie....... I don't require perfection of those whom I support, nor think that those I support ARE perfect. OY!).
I don't spend a lot of time at DU, but I call BS on your statement. There are, however, conservatives who no longer post as frequently because of the liberal nonsense being spewed like "comprehensive immigration reform". The Presidents position on illegal aliens is virtually identical to the Democrats. Democrats are liberal. You do the math.
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