Posted on 04/05/2007 5:42:47 PM PDT by Utah Girl
Mitt Romney is riding high this week after his victory in "the first primary," which consists of raising cold, hard cash to compete: more than $20 million in the first quarter, $5 million more than his closest contender, Rudy "Lay off my wife!" Giuliani. John McCain came in a lackluster third with $12.5 million.
Romney's campaign benefited from two distinct donor networks, according to media accounts: Wall Street and Mormons. GOP front-runner Rudy, struggling with one of those weird media freak shows erupting around his wife, Judith (her alleged participation in future Cabinet meetings and former puppy killings), must be a little envious on both counts.
Why is it that all the Dem candidates are still married to their first spouse, while among the current crop of leading GOP contenders, the only guy with just one wife is the Mormon?
Truth is, I don't think this is just an accident. There's something about Mormons the rest of us ought to pay attention to: Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints do much better than almost any other faith group at sustaining a marriage culture -- and they do this while participating fully and successfully in modern life. Utah is above the national average in both household income and the proportion of adults who are college graduates.
(Excerpt) Read more at townhall.com ...
Hey Me too.
#498 should read "As CC" could you pease correct it.
My apologies cc. Exit stage left in embarrassment. I've got to go to work anyway.
BTW did you know that Joseph Smith was a Methodist? His name is on the rolls of a Methodist Church where he lived in NY.
It’s kinda funny. Joseph Smith was told by God that all Denominations were apostate. Mormons never tell me that the Methodist Church I attend is apostate. All my Reformed and Baptist friends tell me that but not my Mormon friends. Go figure.
Very good; my apologies.
Been there, done that. You need to keep up with the anti-Mormon threads better if you truly want to be opposed to truth and goodness.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1785102/posts?page=133#133
We cannot edit a post, but we can remove it. Let me know if you’d like it removed.
sb,
Neither teaches that people exist in eternity waiting to be set free in a body as people on earth have babies.
No one here would deny that God creates man’s spirit. These passages do not teach he does it apart from a body at the time of conception. And of course we are the “offspring of God” as the poet put it, who Paul quoted. That doesn’t teach the preexistence of souls either.
You have an idea in search of a passage of scripture on which to rest. Always better to start with the scriptures and see what they actually teach.
best,
ampu
restornu,
Have you studied or at least read about the thousands of manuscripts the Scriptures are comprised of? It is no small number. Josh McDowell’s book (again, over 20 years old) covered that in amazing depth - as do numerous other sources. The Dead Sea Scrolls confirmed that what we had was accurate going back thousands of years.
Your argument seems to be that Hebrew has no structure because we have limited evidence of complete scriptures - therefore, we can make them say whatever we want to!
Not so on all counts. Hebrew has a definite structure, with definite meanings of words, and we have reliable texts. And those texts do not teach what you wrote.
We’ve only covered that human spirits do not preexist. BUT...
The same could be said for the MAJORITY of mormon doctrine - most importantly, the means of salvation through faith in Christ alone (apart from the mormon works of temple marriage, missions, etc - that is all man made). Also the teaching of who Christ is. He is not the half brother of satan... not created. We could go on and on and on. None of it is Biblical. None. Mormons, who seem to be nice enough people, hold to mormonism - which contradicts the Bible and provides no salvation through its teaching. My concern is for those who grow up believing what they’ve heard about universal salvation and levels of heaven, etc and miss salvation completely - and those that are led astray because of those who teach these things.
best,
ampu
>>As soon as you talk about anything specific as to the meaning of scripture, they revert
>>to the old “burning in the gut” as the measure of truth.
I went back and looked, I saw nothing about a “burning the gut” merely a testimony of the power of the Holy Ghost to reveal truth. Are you saying that:
a) The Holy Ghost no longer responds to men?
b) The Holy Ghost no longer testifies of truth?
c) The interpretations of scripture by men are better than revelation about that scripture?
What exactly are you saying about the Holy Ghost? Do you believe in him? Does he testify to you?
DU,
I am saying that as soon as the passages of scripture are shown to teach something quite different than was claimed, in my experience, the mormon response is to immediately move to anything subjective. Anything not in writing from God. Nothing propositional. The “burning in the gut” is a catch phrase for that tendency, which appears to be universal.
It had nothing to do with the Holy Spirit. It had everything to do with making truth subjective.
best,
ampu
That’s right; if you don’t like the Bible, simply retranslate it to say what you want. Fine from here on in I expect you to be open to the Joseph smith translation of the Bible, Deal? I thought not. Please stick to the KJV.
You know what. You are right. I’m sending in my letter of resignation today. I will quit the organization formally. I doesn’t really matter if it dishonors my dying mothers wishes....what really matters is what YOU and the likes of you think of me and my honesty and integrity....I must live up to your standards. This is what is required in a cult. I must play by your rules. < /sarc>
You see Rams...I really don’t care what you think of me or my honesty or integrity. It is what I KNOW about myself and my relationship to Jesus Christ that matters.
You go live by your works, your rules and your legalities and I will live in freedom in Jesus Christ.
John 8:31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” ......
...... 34 Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
Why? Isn’t the KJV a translation? What makes it so divine?
Huh?
we are not talking about premonition that is behind another door!
Its a about recieving a witness by the power of the Holy Ghost!
And just how do you knoiw you receive a witness from the Holy Ghost ampu?
Not every thing that has been discovered in the DDS has been brought to surface yet!
BYU also had a roll in the helping to translate those docutments and there has been debates by MS clergy and other men of cloth over the content of those findings and what to share with the world!
http://byubroadcasting.org/deadsea/book/
Since Satan and a third of Heaven's Angels have been banished from Heaven, they cannot be the ones shouting for Joy ... but the Sons of God come in to the daughters of men and conceive giants????
And with humility and decades of scripture study, may I offer the following notions on the other verses you posted? I'll leave out the Hebrew Transliterated versions, to expedite.~ MHGinTN
It is wonderful that you have studied the for decades it truly a sign of all the sincere love you have for the God, but your reply fall short with your "abridged edition" of the standard works, because verse Job 38:7 replies to a question that the Lord had asked Job which has nothing to do with Genesis 6:4
God asks Job where he was when the foundations of the earth were laid, when the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy— The phenomena of nature show greatness of God and weakness of man.
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? In cluded among that group at that time was also Lucifer before he fell from heaven!
****
Prov. 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
Jesus is the one being spoken of, as in a Messianic prophecy. This is not about you or me, it is about our Savior. ~ MHGinTN
How is that possible MHGinTN when in the beganning was the Word - Christ is the Word?
John 1
Christ is the Word of God—He created all things and was made flesh—John baptizes Jesus and testifies he is the Lamb of God—John, Andrew, Simon, Philip, and Nathanael believe in Christ and follow him.
1 IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. Ibid
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:Ibid
26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:Ibid
28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.Ibid;
this is a clear relating of how Messiah rejoiced as He witnessed Yahwehcreating! And a beautiful perspective it is!! ~ MHGinTN
Again your "abridged edition" of the standard works causes you to fall short!
Wisdom is greatly to be desired—The Lord and the sons of men possessed wisdom in pre-existence.
Sons of God shall become like Christ—Love for the brethren required to gain eternal life—Obedience assures us an answer to our prayers.
1 John 3
1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
It is because of "by the power of the Holy Ghost" and not the letter of the law, and the standard works that LDS are to unlock the mysteries of the Bible!
****
Eccl. 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
It is beyond the material in the verses to imply 'gave it' means it was always existing prior to Yahweh placing your spirit in you.
Had Yahweh wanted to communictae that, He would have used some convention similar to that which He used in Jeremiah, in the next verse you offered.
In the LDS understanding it is the Heavenly Father that is the Father of our spirit and Jesus formed man from the dust of the ground!
Prior to this we were nothing but intelligent that had no means of progressing unless Heavenly Father promoted us!
BBL
Thanks for the ping!
It is almost amusing, restornu, that you use that term when you are constantly posting cut and paste pieces from 'abridging' writers, often mixing and remixing pieces from several sources often without stopping to make attribution of the changing sources and sprinkling in materials from Joeseph Smith's BOM.
Have you noticed that when I quote passages from sources I try to place the source right before the citation? I'll place an example below because I really like the Young's source for the inclusiveness of language rather than the exclusion of meaning, but I will close this personal portion of this post by mentioning that if you keep twisting and spinning this way you will spin a Gordian Knot for yourself into which external light will not penetrate.
Latin Vulgate
Romans 8:9 vos autem in carne non estis sed in Spiritu si tamen Spiritus Dei habitat in vobis si quis autem Spiritum Christi non habet hic non est eius
King James Version
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Bible in Basic English
Romans 8:9 You are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God is in you. But if any man has not the Spirit of Christ he is not one of his.
Young's Literal Translation
Romans 8:9 And ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God doth dwell in you; and if any one hath not the Spirit of Christ -- this one is not His;
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