Posted on 04/04/2007 9:42:54 AM PDT by balch3
Once again, it's me and Ralph Peters on the same wavelength, deploring the cowardice of the British sailors and marines kidnapped by Iran. When it happened, I said I hoped the ones who'd shamed their country would be court-martialed on return to Blighty, and given dishonorable discharges after a couple years breaking rocks in the Outer Hebrides (which, believe me—I've been there—have a LOT of rocks). Now, I confess, I wouldn't shed a tear if some worse fate befell them.
The only coherent response I get to these sentiments is: "How do you know what they've been through? How would YOU stand up?" To which the obvious reply is the one Dr. Johnson gave in some similar case: "I may criticize a carpenter who makes me a bad table, though I cannot make a table myself. It is not my job to make tables." It is the job of a Royal Marine to fight, and if necessary suffer and die, for his country. They know that when they go in. It's what they are told! I nurse a quiet hope that if put to the test, I would stand up as well as any Marine. Whether or not I would, however, is irrelevant. Whether or not I could stand up well to torture, I expect Marines to.
And in any case, there was no evidence of torture or mistreatment in any of the filmed cases I have seen. They look just fine. You can't fake that. The girl sailor had that headscarf on within hours. From what I've heard of torture, even weaker cases can hold out for a few days.
(Excerpt) Read more at corner.nationalreview.com ...
??
What a silly point of view.
Brits ARENT wimps. That credit goes to Downing St and their moonbat minority. The US has it’s wimp quotient as well.
Not sure I disagree with the premise. What happened to the standard reply of name, rank and serial number?
We’ll hear more soon enough. Did they threaten to torture the woman or others?
It does need answering.
The fact that this point of view is deemed "silly" by so many is part of the reason these soldiers were captured in the first place.
I find this comment article by John Derbyshire premature (we haven’t heard from the sailors and marines themselves) and thus offensive.
What a bunch of hooey.
I sympathize with Derbyshire, but I’m not sure he’s right.
Apparently the Rules of Engagement were to surrender immediately rather than defend themselves. So they were taken hostage not because of any failure on their part, but because they followed instructions. The captain of the backup ship, too, followed direct orders not to defend his men.
And I’m far from sure what the rules are now for prisoners.
It used to be name, rank, and serial number, period. But I suspect that like the rules of engagement those guidelines may have been changed by the British politicians, so they are instructed to do whatever it takes not to get themselves killed. I’m not at all sure about that, but I suspect it. In any case, when your leaders refuse to let you defend yourself in the face of the enemy, it undermines the kind of resistance Derbyshire calls for.
I don’t think so. These guys were all too willing to make Iran PR clips for their captors. Maybe that had something to do with their ROE but on the whole the Brits did themselves little good overall here.
Remember, their comrades are going to have to work extra hard to overcome the perception that they are weak in a part of the world where being weak is the worst thing imaginable in the eyes of the enemy.
I’m reminded of that scene from “Red Dawn” at the makeshift re-education camp in that drive-in theatre. Harry Dean Stanton’s character Mr. Eckert tells his boys not to cry and as they leave, calls out to them “Avenge me!” That’s the backbone a captive should have. Don’t cry for me, don’t sacrifice your freedom for mine; “Avenge me.” If only I can be that strong if ever in such circumstances.
I'm not sure we will hear. For all we know know, an agreement has been made for their silence or perhaps their relatives were threatened, etc. Still there's 13 of them so you'd think at least one of them would tell the public what happened.
This could have been avoided if the British hadn’t been denied authority to fire on the Iranians when they kidnapped the marines.Second,if i had a gun to my head i’d say anything too-i’d even put on a hajib:)
Here's a message for Dirby if he trolls FR: "Go to hell, you POS."
I faulted Ralph Peterson yesterday and I’ll fault Derbyshire now - to accuse the Royal Marines of anything at all based on a few Iranian television images is simply unfair. Let’s at least get their side of it before we go calling anyone a “wimp.”
If they are not going to defend themselves, or be defended by their fellow RN personnel, what the hell are they doing out there other than providing themselves as a target?
they should have kept their mouths shut.
Look at Cicero’s answer. They are following orders.
That said, I do sympathise with the feelings behind Derbyshire’s sentiments. It has surely been infurating to observe this disgraceful Iranian theatre over the last few days.
We do not know how these people were treated, but we do know that the last batch were subjected to “mock executions”.
What now must be done is to make a new set of ROE, that makes a repeat of such a situation impossible.
This whole thing seems so stage managed by the left, to me. Traitors in high places to make a whole country look bad.
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