Yes, we wouldn't want to *offend* anyone, would we? Of course, there's more than one way to avoid getting cut up in a knife fight...
It'll come to this yet.
Posted on 03/30/2007 6:02:27 AM PDT by propertius
I start to wonder whether it might not be time for us to get as nasty with other countries as they do with us.
As we wait anxiously to see what will happen to our 15 hostages - for that is what they are - in Teheran, we should feel undiluted rage at the behaviour of other countries and institutions towards us.
Mind you, when those third parties witness the drivelling weakness of the Foreign Office over the last week, and in particular the pathetic show put up by our Foreign Secretary - who must surely be just about the worst in our history - who can blame them?
There is no doubt the 15 were in international waters when captured, or that they were undertaking a United Nations mission in pursuit of upholding UN resolutions. Yet the best the UN itself can do is pass a weak-kneed resolution describing its “grave concern”, rather than a tougher one calling upon all nations to “deplore” Iran’s behaviour.
This is all the fault of Russia, to whom Mr Blair routinely cosies up, and whom the civilised world invites to its annual G8 summit meetings. Russia seems to think it isn’t worth “deploring” the kidnap of our sailors, so we had better start to show Russia what we think of it: by uninviting it from the G8 this year, and every year until it learns some manners.
When not busy ordering the murders of his opponents, Vladimir Putin seems to enjoy hobnobbing with the leaders of civilised countries, so such a sanction would hurt.
We don’t have the means to engage in gunboat diplomacy with Iran, and any special forces operation would be fraught with risks both for the hostages and their rescuers.
For the moment, ever-stricter sanctions on Iran seems the only answer. America is resolute about this. So too, oddly, is the world’s greatest sanction-busting nation, France. So the scope for tightening the economic ratchet on Iran, and the means to do so, look healthy.
However, we should be under no illusions about the effectiveness of such weapons.
Saddam Hussein, after all, was put under sanctions for years. Real hardship was caused to his people, but almost none at all to him and his ruling clique.
President Ahmadinejad of Iran has already threatened Britain about our involvement of “third parties” - that is, the UN - in the present dispute, showing his utter contempt for that organisation.
He would treat sanctions with similar disdain, happily cutting off the noses of his own people to spite their faces. And all the time, the threat he and his inherent instability pose to us all would never cease growing.
Whatever the immediate outcome of this crisis, Britain has some hard decisions to make. Is it worthwhile, any longer, to work through the United Nations?
So long as a morally warped nation like Putin’s Russia calls the shots in the Security Council, no.
We can make debating points about how odd it is that Putin deplores Islamic nutters when they attack his forces but is relaxed about them attacking ours, but in the end there is no point in bothering.
The UN showed itself to be weak with Saddam Hussein. It is no better now.
If we are going to continue to try to be a player in the Middle East, then we have to throw in our lot with the Americans, for no-one else makes the blindest bit of difference there.
The capricious, and indeed downright wicked, behaviour of the Iranians towards our sailors confirms one other thing: that the civilised world cannot let the Ahmadinejad regime develop nuclear weapons.
It is not just his oft-repeated enthusiasm for wiping Israel off the face of the earth that should worry us: it is what this madman might decide he wants to do to anyone else within range.
This is no time for our clueless Government to be mothballing the Navy and cutting down the other services. For, at some stage, Iran’s lethal contempt for the rule of international law is going to mean war.
I agree.
I was particularly dissapointed by the u-turn of the Economist. Not that they were all that sensible to begin with, but it was a magazine I used to respect.
Cheers.
The author writes: "Yet the best the UN itself can do is pass a weak-kneed resolution describing its 'grave concern', rather than a tougher one calling upon all nations to 'deplore' Iran’s behaviour..."
Either way, it's just mincing words. There is no substitute for military confrontation with the terrorist powers, however unpleasant and devastating all-out war will be.
Britain and the US have operated on the notion that we can fight a militarily limited and qualified war on "Terror" instead of totally engaging the actual countries that use terrorism/kidnappings as an assymetrical warfare tactic.
We continue to come up against the limits of that strategy.
There are crucial points in history when fighting another nation is necessary despite the costs. Europe appeased Hitler at the outset.....the costs were only GREATER later on to eradicate the evil Nazi empire. If we keep appeasing the little monkey man Of Iran will grow into a 300lb gorilla. Britain, USA....it's time to RUMBLE.....
Yes, it sounds like either a wimpy editor added that, or the headline writer was more gung-ho than the article writer.
Great points. I agree.
I don't know if that is entirely fair. Sure Bush doesn't go out and brag about it, but we have been scooping up a fair number of Iranians in Iraq over the past several months. Plus Iran's ethnic minorities have carried out several particularly bold attacks in the past several months. And then there are those unfortunate series of air transport accidents that have afflicted the Iranian Revolutionary Guards over the past several months. Maybe our new motto is - Don't talk about it, just do it.
"We don’t have the means to engage in gunboat diplomacy with Iran.."
WE do - and we damn well better start immediately.
The ENTIRE Islamic world of fanatic kooks and religious nutjobs are watching this farce and drawing the conclusion that non-Muslims are fair game for hostage taking - even in other territory and even while wearing military uniforms.
We and the Brits should find out where these people are being held - ANY WAY WE CAN - then rescue them and then make Iran pay such a price in urban destruction and loss of life that the Ayatolahs will be cowed, or the very lunatics in their population who keep them in power remove them.
You CAN turn problems into opportunities.
"For the moment, ever-stricter sanctions on Iran seems the only answer"
"Whatever the immediate outcome of this crisis, Britain has some hard decisions to make. Is it worthwhile, any longer, to work through the United Nations?"
"The UN showed itself to be weak with Saddam Hussein. It is no better now."
---------------------------------------------------------
What I read was...
We are in a fine mess now ~ impotent to do anything to Iran, we take out our anger on Russia...
We have no option but to work with the UN, but the UN is hopeless...
-------------------------------------------------------
Rest assured that we are standing shoulder to shoulder with you on this, but you are going to either have to grow a pair a capitulate - those are you only options.
Sorry, but at the moment your country seems content to capitulate.
surprising,huh?
You are forgetting that he took on Saddam - even though the dims and much of the world were opposed to that action. He's not totally "pussified".
I agree. I realize there would be danger to them in a rescue attempt, and obviously certain death in an attack launched by us. But how must they feel, sitting there, being paraded and humiliated daily, all the while knowing that their country is not willing to do anything to get them back?
Futhermore, another poster (former military person) said that he knew at all times that he was expendable for the sake of the mission. But it's one thing to go down fighting and another thing to be dumped and left a captive, trotted out occasionally by your captors to make statements to embarrass the country you were serving, while your country blandly assures the world that you are just another "incident" not worth any response other than a few peevish words.
I am from Norway. We capitulated a long time ago :-)
The writer in the Telegraph do conceed that war will ultimately have to be the solution. And reading between the lines, that will be a war with Britain and the U.S., not through the UN or any such nonsense.
Anyhow, you seems to indicate on another thread that something big was up, so all this might be moot anyways.
Cheers.
The last line:
"For, at some stage, Iran’s lethal contempt for the rule of international law is going to mean war."
seems to back up the headline.
Cheers.
True but that was 4 years ago. Iran is a bigger threat now. Without a real leader, theres only Israel to stop them! Sorry Bush has turned into a Bill Frist/Trent Lott dishrag. No spine!
Yes, first I heard was just two days ago ~ and not from an Iranian but from a Pakistani source.
I think lost in all this discussion (unless I missed it somewhere) is that Don Sharer, one of the US hostages from the Embassy takeover, is convinced that Ahmin - whatever - the Iranian president, was one of the prime players in the US hostage fiasco.
...maybe, and you made some good points--especially about capturing some of them in Iraq.
I guess you could not be more spesific...
Yes, we wouldn't want to *offend* anyone, would we? Of course, there's more than one way to avoid getting cut up in a knife fight...
It'll come to this yet.
The Iranians have a habit of doing this going back to Roman Times.
You are right on target.
But a CAREFULLY executed rescue would result in minimal danger to the captives, ESPECIALLY if we took some of THEIR people in the process and threatened to kill THEM and DO it if necessary.
The degenerate emasculation of western governments is appalling and embarrassing. So much so I would consider surrendering some of my freedoms to be ruled by a leader who was a real man - like Genghis Khan. HE knew how to deal with situations like this.
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