Posted on 03/08/2007 11:59:23 AM PST by Islander7
TRENTON, New Jersey (AP) -- The state chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union is suing the Newark public school district, saying a school's decision to hold its graduation ceremonies in a Baptist church violated a Muslim student's religious freedom.
The New Jersey ACLU said Wednesday that it was suing the school district because its decision to hold graduation in the church prevented West Side High School senior Bilal Shareef, a Muslim, from attending. Shareef's religious beliefs forbid him from entering a building with religious images, the civil liberties group said.
The incident violated provisions in the state constitution prohibiting public institutions from showing a preference for certain religious sects over others; compelling people to attend a place of worship; and segregating or discriminating against public school students because of their religious principles, the ACLU-NJ asserts.
"Schools should not sponsor activities that exclude some students from participation on the basis of religious belief," said ACLU-NJ's legal director, Ed Barocas, who is representing Shareef and his father.
(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...
Actually, I know this because of a friendship I had in the 70's. I was treated very badly by his roommate because I of course was not Jewish. I even caused him to sin one day, because my friend called me on the phone on the Sabbath and his voice was carried over the phone line to my ear. He began beating my friend because I caused him to sin simply by being at the other end of a phone call which I did not originate.
However, I don't think such beliefs should be the basis for law in this country.
> So if my religious teachings believe that abortion is a
> sin, can I use this to prevent the school from taking my
> daughter for an abortion without my permission?
Nope, but you can use it to not have an abortion yourself.
> Is it because my sin is a Christian sin, and thus not as
> important as a Muslim sin?
Nope, it's because neither of the examples you gave is causing YOU to violate your religious principles.
Oh really. Spoken like a true liberal lawyer.
", so some Jewish worshipers are better than others? Ok, fine."
No, some follow the Law as written, and others do not.
"I was treated very badly by his roommate because I of course was not Jewish."
That is horrible and a violation of the Law. A Jew is no better than any other person.
"I even caused him to sin one day, because my friend called me on the phone on the Sabbath and his voice was carried over the phone line to my ear. He began beating my friend because I caused him to sin simply by being at the other end of a phone call which I did not originate."
He sounds like an idiot who majored in the minor areas of the Law.
> Oh really. Spoken like a true liberal lawyer.
Not trying to be. As the old Jewish guy would say, "Come, let us reason together."
What WOULD be a violation of your rights? It's a little tougher, because Christianity (thankfully) doesn't have much in the way of silly ritual obligations, and you can't be held responsible for anybody else's sins.
I think using your tax money to support blasphemous art or abortion qualifies as infringing on your rights, since it arguably makes you a party to the sin.
How's that for an example?
Another factor is this, from down in the story:
The ACLU-NJ said it first complained about a West Side High School graduation at New Hope Baptist Church in 2005, but agreed not to sue when the district's legal director made assurances that the school district would avoid holding a graduation at a religious location again.
But in 2006, graduation was again held at New Hope. And the principal at the time even told graduating students that they would get two additional tickets for family and friends to go to the graduation, provided they also attended a separate religious baccalaureate ceremony for the class at a Roman Catholic church, according to the civil liberties group.
If those claims are true, you don't have a hair-trigger, sue-happy plaintiff, but a school district that has gone back on its word for a third straight year; and a principal who explicitly rewarded students for taking part in a religious ceremony. That's over the line.
As far as the church decor goes, I found a picture here. I don't see anything that would according-to-Hoyle constitute depictions of God, but it's hardly a generic meeting space. And I can't tell what's depicted on the side windows of the sanctuary.
Apropos of nothing, New Hope's choir leader is Cissy Houston, mother of Whitney and aunt of Dionne Warwick; from the number of microphones in the picture and the description of its "media ministry" on the church's Web site, it appears to be a media-savvy megachurch. I'm not saying that's a good or a bad thing -- just a little background.
Most large churches have meeting spaces other than the main sanctuary -- classrooms, meeting rooms used for everyone from scouts to community bands, even gymnasiums. Those churches double as community centers, and there's usually a pretty clear line between the sacred spaces and the ones devoted to community functions.
I've voted in several polling places at churches, but I've never seen the voting booths set up in the sanctuary. It's been my impression that both the church and the state are comfortable with this distinction.
That's funny, because Walmart sells jewelry with crosses on them. Yet I see muzzies populating Walmart like flies on garbage.
"Most large churches have meeting spaces other than the main sanctuary -- classrooms, meeting rooms used for everyone from scouts to community bands, even gymnasiums. Those churches double as community centers, and there's usually a pretty clear line between the sacred spaces and the ones devoted to community functions."
Non-sactuary areas are OK for Orthodox Jews. Here:
http://www.askmoses.com/article.html?h=276&o=2089218
we can all make witty/funny comments, but the reality is that we are being attacked from within...and using the courts to change our way of life. good luck.
This is a nation of laws that respects the religious liberty of Christians and non-Christians alike.
Imagine if I, a Catholic did the same in Saudi Arabia? Those jerks wouldn't even allow me in school. In fact, there'd be a good chance I'd be dead.
That's why we're better than they are. You can never defeat evil by emulating it.
> Non-sactuary areas are OK for Orthodox Jews. Here:
From what I read, it's just the images and pictures that trouble the muslims:
"Umar said, ‘We do not enter your churches because of the statues and pictures.’ Ibn ‘Abbas used to pray in the church provided there were no statues in it." (Bukhari vol.1, chapter 54)
http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/things/depictions-of-muhammad-in-islamic-art.htm
Yeah, I freely admit ignorance of Islam, other than to note that that Korans says that I am descendant of rats and dogs.
Even with that digust, I support the freedom from state-sponsored events that would de facto force them to violate their religious dictates.
That's about what I figured. And that's why, in my reckoning, so many churches (and synagogues, and even mosques) have such spaces. The religious functions and the community functions are connected, both driven by a commitment to service, but distinct; physically separating the two allows them to be as inclusive as possible in hosting a polling place, providing affordable child care, clothing and feeding people, and so on.
I went to preschool and kindergarten at one Presbyterian church, summer day camp at another. I happened to be Presbyterian (sort of), but many of my classmates weren't.
Freedom to a fault. You would have no problems allowing people to come into this country who would eventually deny you YOUR religious rights?
How long do you think it would take before they have sufficient numbers to institute shari'a law (which is their aim) then what would happen to freedom?
How about welcoming communists from other countries? How long will it be before you are a slave?
"America was born a Christian nation. America was born to exemplify that devotion to the elements of righteousness which are derived from the revelations of Holy Scriptures."
(Woodrow Wilson
For using a building? The building is not the church, it is just a BUILDING!!!!!! If the Muslim student is concerned about a building causing his "faith" to falter, then he doesn't have a very strong foundation.
So, I assume that Muslims cannot enter any government buildings, malls, grocery stores, book stores, schools, or even some parks? I see religious symbols in all of these places at one place or another. I wonder what they do when they see the crosses in the memorials on the side of the road?
Based on the numbers in France, my guess is that they are about 20 years away, perhaps less.
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