Posted on 03/07/2007 5:07:38 AM PST by zook
Washington called President Chen Shui-bian's pledge to push for independence "unhelpful" Monday and reiterated its stance against independence for the island Beijing regards as a renegade province.
"As it is well-established, the U.S. does not support independence for Taiwan," State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said.
"President (George W.) Bush has repeatedly underscored his opposition to unilateral changes to the status quo by either Taipei or Beijing because this threatens regional peace and stability, U.S. national interests and Taiwan's own welfare," McCormack said.
He reminded that Chen had pledged in his 2000 and 2004 inaugurations to not declare independence, change the island state's name, or advocate other sovereignty themes.
"President Chen's fulfillment of his commitments is a test of leadership, dependability and statesmanship and of his ability to protect Taiwan's interests, its relations with others and to maintain peace and stability in the Strait," McCormack said.
"Rhetoric that could raise doubts about these commitments is unhelpful."
On Sunday Chen told a group of Taiwan independence advocates that "Taiwan wants independence, Taiwan wants to change its name, Taiwan wants a new constitution, Taiwan wants development."
Such rhetoric in the past has angered Beijing, and raised concerns in the United States, which has pledged to protect Taiwan from Chinese military aggression.
I disagree. The ideal situation would be for the mainland to renounce Communism, become a representative democracy, grant individual freedoms and participate in open trade.
Of course, that won't happen anytime soon.
The ideal situation, that is practical, would be for the mainland to recognize Taiwan as an independent nation. De facto independence becomes real independence with a single piece of paper. Both nations would benefit greatly from free trade agreements as well.
While the mainland is no longer Maoist, it is still Communist. It has benefitted greatly by allowing foreign corporations to do business on its soil, but outside of that, manufacturing capital is still under the control of the central government.
Chen was elected by the people of Taiwan with the full knowledge that he supports independence. The Taiwanese want independence. They already have political and economic freedom....they have no desire to relinquish any of that to the mainland.
What is truly reckless is the constant sword rattling by the mainland. The Taiwanese need to make it known that they do not want unification. This is self-defense and I respect them for it.
The United States does not need to defend Taiwan militarily. China is completely dependent on free trade with the United States...and China knows that a simple vote in Congress can do more damage than a whole fleet of US carriers.
Taiwan has got yippy little dog syndrome.
They can act tough hiding behind US skirts.
Americans busted their asses to keep these idiotic testosteroned morons off each others' backs by brokering the "One China" policy, which, for whatever idiotic reasons, ROC-Chinese and PRC-Chinese seemed to be able to grab onto to protect their childish concepts of "face."
Whatever. AMerica has been "culturally sensitive" enough to let these idiots live under whatever dumbass pretense they preferred.
But if Chen wants to come out form under that skirt and stir up a fight, the adolscent jackass should be kicked out on his own. Chen's bravado is based on using the blood of America sailors to prop up his manhood.
If they want to terminate the "one china" status quo, then they need to sacrifice their boys. And it will f'up the entire Paicifc trade and commerce and economy.
We've protected them for 50 years. It's their gd turn to defend that godforsaken filthy little tropical dump of an island.
Look--there's no doubt that China and the US have been enemies in the past and are adversaries today. But I will go along with the idea being put forth here that the Chinese are evil people who seek world domination. The evidence of the past 25 years is almost entirely to the contrary.
Probably half the people of Taiwan either support or do not wish to fight the idea that Taiwan is part of China--not the PRC, but of China. Their wish is to someday re-unite into one reasonably democratic Chinese nation.
By democratizing over recent years, China has also stepped in that direction. Instead of doing the same, Chen and the DPP are threatening to rip apart the understanding that has led to a peaceful status quo over the years.
The idea of "helping the people of Taiwan fight for their independence" by supporting TI is wrong on two levels. It assumes that the majority of the people want to do this, and it leads to an unthinkable war with China. "No," you say. "China will back down." No, they won't. They are just as proud as we are. They won't back down. It will be a terrible bloody fight for everyone in the world.
And it would be an unnecessary worthless fight. Because it won't be a "fight for freedom." It will be a fight for Chen Shui Bian's ego.
I think I have said all I can possibly say on this. I've said it as clearly as I can. People are free to disagree with me. But it's noteworthy that my position is the same as that of the US, of Ronald Reagan, and of G.W. Bush.
Don't confuse "democracy" with "independence." Taiwan, like Hong Kong, enjoys a great deal of democracy and freedom, but is not legally independent.
If we are going to fight China, it should be for something real, not something conjured up in the mind of a tin-horn politico like Chen Shui Bian.
In other words we talk big all over the world but don'g follow through. Also Chen may be a "tin horn" to you but is really loved by his own people. If they didn't back him he wouldn't be saying these things.
"I had a copy of the Soviet Constitution and I read it with great interest. And I saw all kinds of terms in there that sound just exactly like our own: 'Freedom of assembly' and 'freedom of speech' and so forth. Of course, they don't allow them to have those things, but they're in there in the constitution. But I began to wonder about the other constitutions -- everyone has one -- and our own, and why so much emphasis on ours. And then I found out, and the answer was very simple -- that's why you don't notice it at first. But it is so great that it tells the entire difference. All those other constitutions are documents that say, 'We, the government, allow the people the following rights,' and our Constitution says 'We the People, allow the government the following privileges and rights.' We give our permission to government to do the things that it does. And that's the whole story of the difference--why we're unique in the world and why no matter what our troubles may be, we're going to overcome." -Ronald Reagan
The Chinese people are not evil. Their leaders, however are evil, disgusting folks who will one day rot in hell.
You enjoy calling Chen names, but why do I never see you namecalling, say, Hu Jintao?
The SAME government is still in power in China that killed well over 20 million of their own people throughout the 20th Century. Fantasy world? Try cold hard reality.
But you know very well that not every democracy has a written constitution and not every country with a written constitution follows it.
If you're suggesting that we can't give China credit for anything until they do things our way or see things our way, I'd say that's completely unreasonable. Reagan's words are good political rhetoric for times of political confrontation. But I guarantee you that if Reagan were president today, he'd be doing exactly as Bush has done--visiting China and voicing cautious optimism.
Just to make it clear, nor do I believe that all of the Chinese leaders are evil or that they should all rot in hell. China has good fruit on its good tree--not all of its roots can be bad.
I don't know for sure what kind of a man Hu is, but I do know that he's at least tacitly agreed to keep the status quo between China and Taiwan. Chen, on the other hand, is threatening to rip apart that understanding for the sake of sheer political power.
The same "government" is in the US that allowed the enslavement of how many thousands of Black people. It's the same government that allowed the removal of native Americans.
We can be tarred by that same brush. How many years of Chinese progress would you need to see before you'd drop that argument?
They have made a conscious decision to participate in a government which stifles basic human rights. They could have chosen to remain a civilian. By choosing this path, they show their scumbaggery.
And to reiterate, I think the vast majority of Chinese people are good and decent. A good friend of mine is an immigrant from China and pretty much shares my feelings about the ChiCom government. Interestingly enough, he owns a Japanese/sushi restaurant.
And what was ultimately the solution to the slavery problem? Violence. Hopefully the other posters who bring up the point of the gender imbalance have a point and this will eventually lead to an overthrow of the existing government. I'm sorry to say that I believe this will be the only real way the good people of China will finally have the freedom they deserve.
Don't be an idiot. Thousands of people enslaved is one thing. MILLIONS murdered by their own government is another thing.
I'd give it 100+ years before I'd drop the argument. Now, how else do you want to shill for the Red Chinese?
Zook is trying to come to terms here.
I like the Chinese people Zook, Clean, Hard Working, intelligent, industrious, love their children and unfortunatly in mainland China enslaved.. if we could only help them get rid of the enslaved part they would be a great boon to mankind. An who doen's like Sechwan Beef:).
W
Actually, Chen was elected the first time with less than 36% of the votes.
The second time, he won a very narrow margin after an "assassination" attempt 2 days before the election - and no assassins have ever been caught (a lot of people suspect that he did it on himself in the hospital). Put it this way, he was supposedly shot with a bullet (a 22, by the way, no one uses that for assassinations), and instead of being rushed to the best hospital or the closest one, he went to a small hospital loyal to him and the DPP.
He's doing this TI stuff right now to get people off of his corrupt regime - his son in law has already been convicted, now his wife is being investigated for corruption. He's in deep political doo-doo and he knows it.
"By democratizing over recent years, China has also stepped in that direction."
Name one "democratizing" step the Chinese government has taken? Free and open elections, where? Free choice of political options, where? Open political opposition, where? Democratic voting outside of a Communist Party rigged candidate list, and for a candidate outside of the Communist party, where? Policy determined by freely chosen representative of people free to choose their own representatives, outside of the Communist Party and make decisions outside of what the party wants, where?
No where, that's where.
You spout myths: "democratizing over recent years" but have no understanding of any "democracy" you can speak of.
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