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No deal, Rudy
Catholic Online ^ | 3/6/2007

Posted on 03/06/2007 5:39:37 PM PST by markomalley

They are saying that the next GOP presidential candidate might very well be a pro-abortion Republican who promises not to push that issue and is strong on other issues.

They hope that pro-lifers will “be reasonable,” not let the perfect be the enemy of the good, and go along quietly.

We won’t.

Republicans and Democrats in 1980 took radically different approaches to the right to life. Republicans wrote into their party platform that all abortions should be outlawed. Democrats wrote into their party platform that not only should abortion be legal, but families should be forced to pay for others’ abortions through their taxes.

Democratic leaders have been utterly committed to their party platform. But there’s a movement afoot for Republicans to shrug off this plank of the party platform altogether, and give a pro-abortion politician the reins of the party and, they hope, the White House.

In particular, Rudy Giuliani has become a favorite for president of conservative talk-show hosts, and pro-war and tough-on-crime Republicans. He’s also way ahead in polls like Newsweek’s, though it’s anyone guess what such polls mean so early in the process.

The way the pro-Rudy argument goes is this: For the past three decades, social conservatives have had the luxury of insisting on purity in the Republican Party. Their clout was such that any candidate had to undergo a “forced conversion” before running for national office. But 9/11 changed that. Now, extremist Islam and the war on terror are such all-consuming issues, and we can’t be so caught up with abortion anymore.

Since Giuliani is committed to the war on terror and is a great crisis manager with a track record rooting out the gangs of New York, we shouldn’t demand that he be pro-life, but instead we should be willing to make a deal.

Rudy’s deal: He’ll promise not to push the pro-abortion agenda, and he’ll nominate judges in the mold of Samuel Alito and John Roberts. Pro-lifers in the Republican Party in return would support him, but keep insisting that the party stay pro-life, and fight our fiercest pro-life battles at the state level, where they belong.

That seems like a good deal, at first blush. We’re well aware that “forced conversions” to the pro-life fold are far from the ideal. Think of the candidacy of Bob Dole in 1996. And it is true that the fight against judicial tyranny is an immense front in the battle for the right to life. Transforming the courts is a prerequisite to victory elsewhere.

But what dooms the deal from the start is the fact that it totally misunderstands what pro-lifers care about in the first place.

When they ask us to “be reasonable” and go along with a pro-abortion leader, they assume that there is something unreasonable about the pro-life position to start with.

We’re sorry, but we don’t see what is so unreasonable about the right to life. We’ve seen ultrasounds, we’ve named our babies in the womb, we’ve seen women destroyed by abortion. What looks supremely unreasonable to us is that we should trust a leader who not doesn’t only reject the right to life but even supports partial-birth abortion, which is more infanticide than abortion.

We also see the downside of Rudy’s deal. If pro-lifers went along, we’d soon find out that a pro-abortion Republican president would no longer preside over a pro-life party. The power a president exerts over his party’s character is nearly absolute. The party is changed in his image. He picks those who run it and, both directly and indirectly, those who enter it.

Thus, the Republicans in the 1980s became Reaganites. The Democrats in the 1990s took on the pragmatic Clintonite mold. Bush’s GOP is no different, as Ross Douthat points out in “It’s His Party” in the March Atlantic Monthly.

A Republican Party led by a pro-abortion politician would become a pro-abortion party. Parents know that, when we make significant exceptions to significant rules, those exceptions themselves become iron-clad rules to our children. It’s the same in a political party. A Republican Party led by Rudy Giuliani would be a party of contempt for the pro-life position, which is to say, contempt for the fundamental right on which all others depend.

Would a pro-abortion president give us a pro-life Supreme Court justice? Maybe he would in his first term. But we’ve seen in the Democratic Party how quickly and completely contempt for the right to life corrupts. Even if a President Giuliani did the right thing for a short time, it’s likely the party that accepted him would do the wrong thing for a long time.

Would his commitment to the war on terror be worth it? The United States has built the first abortion businesses in both Afghanistan and Iraq, ever. Shamefully, our taxes paid to build and operate a Baghdad abortion clinic that is said to get most of its customers because of the pervasive rape problem in that male-dominated society. And that happened under a pro-life president. What would a pro-abortion president do?

The bottom line: Republicans have made inroads into the Catholic vote for years because of the pro-life issue. If they put a pro-abortion politician up for president, the gains they’ve built for decades will vanish overnight.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: abestgopcandidate; abortion; catholicforum; cino; guiliani; homosexualagenda; liberalgop; marksanford; messageboardpost; moralabsolutes; norudy; prolife; rino; rudy; tomtancredo
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To: narses; areafiftyone
Third Roman Catholics don't like to let the church (especially the Roman Catholic Church) decide for them who to vote for when it comes to politics.

The Church has a responsibility to educate voters regarding the principles behind just voting, since in a democracy, the people have a responsibility to vote properly.

The fundamental purpose of the State is the advancement of the temporal welfare of its citizens. It necessarily follows that the primary duty of the State is to defend the lives of its citizens. Any politician who advocates laws tolerating the killing of innocent people is unworthy of holding any public office.

Further details are available here: Voters Guide for Serious Catholics

421 posted on 03/07/2007 5:56:12 AM PST by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: zook

Well, I agree with you when put that way. At least there i something we agree on. :)


422 posted on 03/07/2007 5:57:10 AM PST by dmw (Aren't you glad you use common sense, don't you wish everybody did?)
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To: GSlob
Just inhale deeply and then say: "their effing is none of my effing business".

"Am I my brother's keeper?" --Cain.

Are the murdered babies none of your business?

423 posted on 03/07/2007 5:58:19 AM PST by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: narses

Posting the same "facts" over and over and over IS spam.


424 posted on 03/07/2007 6:06:56 AM PST by Corin Stormhands (98% Spyware Free)
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To: TommyDale
Thanks a lot.

You're very welcome.

425 posted on 03/07/2007 6:07:48 AM PST by Corin Stormhands (98% Spyware Free)
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To: nopardons; mylife
I completely refuted your post.

LMAO! Babble is not a refutation. Blackbird.

426 posted on 03/07/2007 6:16:42 AM PST by BlackbirdSST (Stay out of the Bushes, unless you're RINO hunting!)
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To: Aquinasfan

You got it - they are none of my business. And none of yours, BTW. One would think that the Prohibition was lesson enough, but some people never learn.


427 posted on 03/07/2007 6:18:33 AM PST by GSlob
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To: Corin Stormhands

Absolutely hilarious!!!! :-D


428 posted on 03/07/2007 6:37:23 AM PST by BunnySlippers (RUDY FOR PRESIDENT 2008)
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To: GSlob
You got it - they are none of my business. And none of yours, BTW. One would think that the Prohibition was lesson enough, but some people never learn.

Are you comparing being able to buy a beer with killing a unborn child? Drink wine, slaughter children, whatever you're into, I suppose?

429 posted on 03/07/2007 6:38:22 AM PST by LWalk18
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To: markomalley

You Rudy folks should really, really heed what this article is saying...

Your right. Hillary will do a lot more for the cause.


430 posted on 03/07/2007 6:39:07 AM PST by DOGEY
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To: GSlob

'Their' sexual proclivities are not the issue, slob. It's the killing of alive unborn children which piques our interest ... LIFE, liberty, you know, those fundamental values enumerated in the Declaration of Independence.


431 posted on 03/07/2007 6:42:49 AM PST by MHGinTN (If you've had life support. Promote life support for others.)
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To: markomalley
This is why we have no real choices during elections. This is why many people do not vote. Why?

1) The Electoral College is a failed system and must be changed or done away with so that the candidate will be forced to espouse the principles of his true constituents.
2) The party gate keepers have relaxed the constraints placed upon any candidate seeking the Republican ticket. They should be booted out. OR...
3) If this continues to happen, you will see a new Conservative Party rise to the occasion since the GOP has been high-jacked. Yes, a third party! You heard right. NOT independent, but CONSERVATIVE.
4) We need a national referendum on serious societal issues such as immigration, gays, abortion, term limits, pardons, and electoral processes. This way it can get a little closer to being of, by and for the people.
The Left has gone Marxist and the Right has gone Liberal. Why is being Liberal considered progress or a move foreword? Some of you in here are PC and multicultural Liberals pretending to be conservative with a wet noodle for a spine. Offended? Then that means you.
432 posted on 03/07/2007 6:43:07 AM PST by SQUID
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To: Carry_Okie
Maybe for some, but not for me. What really troubles me about Rudy is that he doesn't understand why the Second Amendment is our best defense against an enemy within. Its purpose is to empower every male of fighting age to be an agent to protect this country.

It's troubling on several levels. That his position is a step backward is clear.

One of the problems of the last several decades has been federal usurpation of issues best left to the states. In this instance Rudy takes a federally protected right and essentially supports delegating it to the states, where inroads can be made more easily, moulding attitudes.

If a federal official or candidate believes handgun bans, assault weapon bans, and licensing are constitutional, he should have the courage to propose them on a federal level. Not to the states and courts in an effort to build momentum.

IMO this brings his promise to appoint conservative judges into question as well.

433 posted on 03/07/2007 7:07:51 AM PST by SJackson (No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms, Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Carry_Okie
A relevant thread.

Shooting Back-story of Christian missionary who fired on terrorists who attacked his congregation

434 posted on 03/07/2007 7:09:35 AM PST by SJackson (No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms, Thomas Jefferson)
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To: markomalley

Those posts were not impressive.


435 posted on 03/07/2007 7:11:11 AM PST by gogeo (Democrats want to support the troops without actually being helpful to them.)
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To: dmw
We have considered the next 8 years of Hillary, that's why we are fighting to prevent Rudy from getting nominated. If he does get nominated the results will be 8 years of Hillary, and you'll have no one to blame but YOURSELF my FRiend. Below is a letter you can expect to get in the mail if Rudy is nominated...

If you seriously believe that, then your problem is a larger one than immaturity.

436 posted on 03/07/2007 7:12:32 AM PST by gogeo (Democrats want to support the troops without actually being helpful to them.)
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To: Fierce Allegiance

My hands look just fine. I suppose one tactic I could follow is to wait for the anti-Rudy foamers to rant themselves out, as I did with my then three year old daughter...but she was a faster learner.

You can post all the cross dressing photos you want, and vent all your overblown rhetoric...in the end, you'll still sound like a college student.


437 posted on 03/07/2007 7:16:04 AM PST by gogeo (Democrats want to support the troops without actually being helpful to them.)
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To: gogeo

LOL< I could care less about Rudy's cross dressing pics, but the fact he raised money for an anti-war communist group doesn't sit well wiith me.


438 posted on 03/07/2007 7:20:56 AM PST by Fierce Allegiance (RINO = Rudy Is Not Ours! Keep scrubbing, Rudy supporters, the blood won't come off.)
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To: voltaires_zit
1) No single position should be a "disqualifier".

For better or for worse, 2nd Amendment advocates disagree with you.

439 posted on 03/07/2007 7:23:32 AM PST by jmc813 (Rudy Giuliani as the Republican nominee is like Martin Luther being Pope.)
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To: bushfamfan

So is John McCain. Both said they first debate will be at the Reagan Library. Mrs. Reagan extended the invitation and they accepted as their first debate. Why attend one sponsored by CNN in NH? I would not attend anything by CNN if I were a candidate. John McCain is going to be in Iraq and Rudy already had some things scheduled but the main deal is that the first real debate is scheduled at the Reagan Library.

Why don't you get your facts straight?


440 posted on 03/07/2007 7:33:41 AM PST by PhiKapMom (Broken Glass Republican -- RudyforPresident2008@yahoogroups.com or http://www.rudygforamerica.com)
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