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To: upier
"The Romans fell" because they became too dependent on the Germanic tribes immigrating in while not encouraging those Germanics to assimilate (and promising them land and then not giving it to them). From a Christian view, it is apparent that the Roman Empire lost its usefulness. It served as an incubator for the spread of Christianity, and once that was largely fulfilled, it was time to convert the barbarians.

What could those American citizens do to stop their alien parents from illegally crossing the border? Kick?

Here's a Wikipedia link with the text of the Fourteenth Amendment: here.
Where do you find that a child of an alien is not a citizen? In contrast the very first sentence states: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

15 posted on 02/28/2007 6:37:12 PM PST by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu
Actually, it's not cut and dried that just being born in the USA makes you a citizen.

The Constitution states: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

. . subject to the jurisdiction thereof is also subject to interpretation, legislative definition, and further judicial findings. Just because it has been accepted that way does not mean it's constitutional.

When a Mexican is born here or is arrested in the USA the Mexican government insists it has certain rights to act on that person's behalf. So one could say that those born here are not fully subject to American jurisdiction. Likewise and uncontested is the fact that children born to diplomats and foreign military stationed in the USA are not automatically US citizens, even though the conditions of their birth do not differ from that of an illegal.

While a constitutional amendment would be the cleanest (and most difficult) solution, a re-interpretation of the existing amendment or a legislative imposition could fix the problem overnight, but no one has the guts to try it.

Ironically, the Democrats in Congress and Republican Tom Davis want to give the District of Columbia a vote in Congress even though the Constitution expressly limits Congressional representation to the states.

To quote a legal expert, when it come to what citizenship is depends on what the meaning of is is.

31 posted on 02/28/2007 7:38:09 PM PST by oldbill
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

The key phrase is "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" Illegals are under the jurisdiction of their native country.

As stated before the writers of the Amendment clearly stated that they did not intend for the Amendment to give citizenship the the children of Aliens. I will find and post the quote later. Also don't we have the same problem as the Romans in that the Mexican illegals are depended on for cheap labor but are not encouraged to assimilate? In fact we are going out of our way to make it easier for them not to.


36 posted on 03/01/2007 4:15:08 AM PST by upier ("Usted no es agradable en América" "Ahora deporte Illegals")
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To: Jedi Master Pikachu

Here is the quote I promised.

"Every Person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons."

Senator Jacob Howard,
co-author of the citizenship clause of the 14th Amendment, 1866.


38 posted on 03/01/2007 5:16:44 AM PST by upier ("Usted no es agradable en América" "Ahora deporte Illegals")
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