[ASA Vet]

Pingski

[george76]

who were the first people in the Americas if not the Clovis...?

.

[TommyDale]

I was thinking more of Clovis, California.

[CottShop]

'advanced radiocarbon dating techniques'- forget that they're only good up to about 7000 years, but by golly- they've radiocarbon dated the material to be 1500 years old- so there you have it- it must be true.

[Verginius Rufus]

Ironic that they're putting this out in 2007, the 1500th anniversary of Clovis' great victory over the Visigoths at the battle of Vouille.

It looks like some people still have "issues" with the Frankish victory.

[Physicist]

Can they trace the Clovis-point tools to a specific tool tradition in Asia? If not, then it seems entirely likely that the technology was developed here in the Western Hemisphere, which would moot the question of whether the Clovis people "came first".

[MortMan]

That would make the Clovis culture, known from artifacts discovered at various sites including the town of Clovis, New Mexico, both younger and shorter-lived than previously thought.,/I>

Must have been liberals.

[alloysteel]

The "Clovis" people were almost certainly NOT the first humans to occupy the Americas. There is genealogical evidence that some of the first migrants came to SOUTH America, perhaps of the same racial stock as the Polynesians that had previously spread from New Zealand, and points like Tahiti, over most of the islands of the South Pacific, and may have been the mysterious occupants of Easter Island.

After all, they were excellent navigators, using nothing but the stars and dead reckoning. Sail east, Central and South America are awfully hard to miss.

[PeteB570]

Getting harder and harder to tell who are true "Native Americans". IE: We got here first so we're special.

[RightWhale]

We've got to stop thinking about the peopling of the Americas as a singular event," Waters said

Just about every empire we know of from 2000 BC on traded extensively with America.

[Redcloak]

"And we have to start now thinking about the peopling of the Americas as a process, with people coming over here, probably arriving at different times, maybe taking different routes and coming from different places in northeast Asia."

He's still limiting his thinking. Who says that they all came from Asia? If you allow for the use of watercraft, as happened in Australia 20,000 years earlier, then they could have come from many different places.

One interesting theory involves the Solutrean culture from what is now France. Solutrean stone tools look more like Clovis tools than do anything in Asia. If we assume that Clovis technology was developed from something earlier, then nothing in Asia seems to fit as a predecessor. This particular European technology, however, does look like a "pre-Clovis" design.

Our ancestors were far more mobile than we give them credit for.

[lilylangtree]

Hey Sid, Manny & Diego ("Ice Age"), these are the people that hunted you.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks george76 for the topic, and thanks to you and ASA Vet for the pings.

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.

Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
"Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list or GGG weekly digest
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[SunkenCiv]

Calico: A 200,000-year Old Site In The Americas?
ASA On Line | unknown
Posted on 12/17/2001 5:22:22 PM EST by blam
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/592435/posts

Immigrants From The Other Side (Clovis Is Solutrean?)
CSFA | 11-3-2003 | Dennis Sanford
Posted on 11/02/2003 7:11:21 PM EST by blam
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1013315/posts

Iberia, Not Siberia
Team Atlantis | 12-6-2000 | Michael A Arbuthnot
Posted on 12/21/2003 12:48:22 PM EST by blam
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1044449/posts

The Solutrean Solution--Did Some Ancient Americans Come from Europe?
Clovis and Beyond | 1999 | Dennis Stanford and Bruce Bradley
Posted on 09/24/2004 10:31:55 PM EDT by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1226510/posts

Stone Age Columbus
BBC | Dec 15, 2005 | BBC programme summary
Posted on 12/15/2005 10:19:43 AM EST by ASA Vet
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1540929/posts

First Americans May Have Been European
LiveScience.com | 2/19/06 | Bjorn Carey
Posted on 02/20/2006 12:08:52 AM EST by anymouse
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1581995/posts

[Bernard Marx]

"I think that's what we've got to work toward -- a new model for the peopling of the Americas, and I think we need to create a coherent model that's based on genetic data, geological evidence as well as archeological data."

Facts? Naw, that's too radical and requires too much thinking... Besides, it might affect some professors' income stream from self-authored textbook sales.

[Ieatfrijoles]

Ieatfrijoles was born in Clovis NM. Stay down. I know you were all dying to know that.

[CharacterCounts]

When the evidence first started coming out that the clovis people were no the first, The established scientific consenus pretty much ridiculed the findings and those scientist making the assertion.

Similar to the treatment, but on a smaller scale, the global warming skeptics are receiving today.

[Prost1]

This is sooooo stupid.

The south Americans were not from north America. They
most likely hopped the islands and Anartica to south American.

Anartica was not always covered with ice.

It is most likely (imo) the source of ATLANTIS!

[Ptarmigan]

I tend to think the first Americans came around 50,000 years ago.

[SunkenCiv]

...Traditionally, the Clovis culture has been said to date from 11,500 to 10,900 years ago, but a comprehensive and critical review of the radiocarbon dates for Clovis in the Feb. 23 issue of the journal Science has narrowed the range to 11,050 to 10,800 years ago. Michael Waters, director of the Center for the Study of the First Americans, and Thomas Stafford, director of Stafford Research Laboratories, argue that "in as few as 200 calendar years, Clovis technology originated and spread throughout North America." ...[T]he sudden appearance of Clovis technology no longer can be linked to the original discoverers of America... The nearly simultaneous appearance of Clovis points across North America, coupled with the evidence for pre-Clovis cultures, suggests that it was the idea of making Clovis points that spread through groups of people who already had settled much of the continent... -- Bradley T. Lepper