[OldGuard1]

Vote for a liberal, you'll get liberalism. Don't vote (D/L). Don't vote (R/L). Don't vote for a letter of the alphabet. Vote for a philosophy. Vote for a Conservative. I will not vote for Rudy. I'm not liberal. I'm a Conservative.

Wow -- I couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you.

As for "true conservatives" who think they're being pragmatists by voting for Giuliani or McCain over Hillary. You gain: * A better defense policy Nothing else. Their other positions tend to average out about the same as Hillary's, and while Hillary has the core convictions of a spatula and the morals of a dog, well, I think that our drag-dressing "McGovern Democrat" Giuliani has shown himself to be no better. What do you lose? * The loyal opposition. Repulicans in congress will not vote against Giuliani in significant enough numbers to overturn his supreme court noms, his bills, his appointees, etc. * The chance to send a message. That is, to say, the base will be continued to be treated as worthless (only moreso), despite the fact that even they admit we gave them almost all of their victories in the past two decades. They call us "the nuts" in private, and then try to placate us with words, if even that. And some people buy into it. I'm tired of being treated like this, and I'm not going to accept false pragmatism so we can get a kissing-cousin baby killer-supporting global warming advocate who wants to ban our guns and open our borders as a president with an (R) after his name. In short, I don't want them ruining the reputation of the Republican party. Call me an idealist. I consider it pragmatism.

[alarm rider]

Wow, "well said" on that one seems to be a bit of an understatement.

"I'm tired of being treated like this, and I'm not going to accept false pragmatism so we can get a kissing-cousin baby killer-supporting global warming advocate who wants to ban our guns and open our borders as a president with an (R) after his name."

That should be on a brass plaque soemwhere. Excellent.

[CharlesWayneCT]

Gulliani is a much more fiscally conservative person then Hillary.

[M. Dodge Thomas]

"Their other positions tend to average out about the same as Hillary's"

I'm not a fan of McCain for other reasons, but at least in the case of McCain and Clinton (where you have two Senate voting records to compare head-to-head) there is a big difference in their political philosophies:

http://votesmart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=S0061103 http://votesmart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=WNY99268