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Archeologist: Ancient cistern proves location of Second Temple
Jerusalem Post ^ | Feb. 7, 2007 23:28 | Updated Feb. 7, 2007 23:45 | ETGAR LEFKOVITS

Posted on 02/07/2007 8:20:27 PM PST by Esther Ruth

Feb. 7, 2007 23:28 | Updated Feb. 7, 2007 23:45

Archeologist: Ancient cistern proves location of Second Temple

By ETGAR LEFKOVITS

An Israeli archeologist said Wednesday that he has pinpointed the exact location of the Second Jewish Temple on the Temple Mount.

The site identified by Hebrew University archeologist Prof. Joseph Patrich, based on the study of a large underground cistern on the Temple Mount and passages from the Mishna, places the Temple and its corresponding courtyards, chambers and gates in a more southeasterly and diagonal frame of reference compared to previous studies.

Patrich based his research, which is about to be published, on a study of a large underground cistern on the Temple Mount that was mapped by British engineer Sir Charles Wilson in 1866 on behalf of the Palestine Exploration Fund, along with passages from the Mishna.

The giant cistern, 4.5 meters wide and 54 meters long, lay near the southeastern corner of the upper platform of the Temple Mount. Examining the location and configuration of the cistern together with descriptions of the daily rite in the Temple and its surroundings found in the Mishna, Patrich said that this cistern is the only one found on the Temple Mount that can tie in with the ancient rabbinic text describing elements involved in the daily purification and sacrificial duties carried out by the priests on the altar in the Temple courtyard.

On this basis, he says, one can reconstruct the placement of a large basin that was used by the priests for their ritual washing, with the water being drawn by a waterwheel mechanism from the cistern.

After this purification, the priests ascended the nearby ramp to the sacrificial altar.

By thus locating the laver, the water wheel, the ramp and the altar, one can then finally map, again in coordination with the Mishna, the alignment of the Temple itself and its gates and chambers, he said.

These considerations led Patrich to place the Second Temple further to the east and south than earlier thought, and at a southeasterly angle relative to the eastern wall of the Temple Mount, and not perpendicular to it, as earlier assumed.

Patrich said that his research indicates that the rock over which the Dome of the Rock was built in the 7th century CE is actually outside the confines of the Temple.

The rock is believed to be the place at which the binding of Isaac took place, while Muslims consider it to be the spot from which Muhammad ascended to heaven.

The Temple Mount is Judaism's holiest site as the ancient compound where the two Jewish Temples stood, and is Islam's third holiest site after Mecca and Medina.


TOPICS: Israel; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: godsgravesglyphs; israel; kingdavid; temple; templemount
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To: Esther Ruth
Christian Era instead of After Christ

Nope, I thibk it stands for common era, Just another way to remove Christ from our language and culture.

21 posted on 02/07/2007 10:05:14 PM PST by itsahoot (The GOP did nothing about immigration, immigration did something about the GOP (As Predicted))
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To: itsahoot

It disgusts me every time I see BCE or CE rather than BC or AD.


22 posted on 02/07/2007 10:24:13 PM PST by rdl6989 (COLTS WIN!)
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To: Esther Ruth

The Temple Mount has been Islam's third holiest site since the mohos determined to remove the Jewish presence from Palestine. That status has no historical roots beyond the last couple of centuries.


23 posted on 02/07/2007 11:39:26 PM PST by ThanhPhero (di hanh huong den La Vang)
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To: kerryusama04

CE means Christian Era, of course. Folks don't understand that furrin language Anno Domini stuff.


24 posted on 02/07/2007 11:40:54 PM PST by ThanhPhero (di hanh huong den La Vang)
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To: ThanhPhero
The article is from an ISRAELI publication, where the calendar is in the Year 5767. So why would an article from an Israeli source date its publication from the birth of Jesus?
25 posted on 02/08/2007 1:45:27 AM PST by Fred Nerks (Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD free pdf download. Link on my bio page.)
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To: Esther Ruth
"....[a pagan] ascended to heaven...." ???
26 posted on 02/08/2007 1:51:06 AM PST by Robert Drobot (Da mihi virtutem contra hostes tuos.)
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To: Esther Ruth; kerryusama04
Christian Era instead of After Christ Anno Domini ( A.D. ) 'Year of Our Lord'.
27 posted on 02/08/2007 1:55:54 AM PST by Robert Drobot (Da mihi virtutem contra hostes tuos.)
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To: Fred Nerks
"So why would an article from an Israeli source date its publication from the birth of Jesus?"

Two things. The BC/AD or BCE/CE or +/- arguments are kind of funny when one thinks that no matter what terminology is use, it is based on the year of the birth of Christ(although I guess they figure that was really 4 BC now?)

As with why does the Israeli newspaper date it at 2007? I'm sure there is a very interesting explanation, but my guess would be "history is written (and dated) by the victors."

As an even further aside, I seem to recall a huge battle that was lost as one side was to attack from the west, and their allied country was to attack from the east. The date came and the western nation got beaten - and the eastern country's army came a few days later and looked upon the ruins (a mix up in the Roman calendar and the Gregorian calender or some-such as I recall from Junior High!?)
28 posted on 02/08/2007 2:03:52 AM PST by geopyg (Don't wish for peace, pray for Victory.)
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To: itsahoot
You are quite right. The abrogate substitution 'CE' for the appropriate 'A.D.' is currently a UN campaign ( fronting for white and yellow atheist commies, and all other heathen/pagan reaches of the non-Eastern/Western Catholic world.

Anyone with a half-a-brain is aware it was the the Catholic Church that devised the common calender. Leave it to fools and frauds to attempt to redefine/revise historical fact.

29 posted on 02/08/2007 2:14:32 AM PST by Robert Drobot (Da mihi virtutem contra hostes tuos.)
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To: Robert Drobot

It's worse than that- it's actually Common Era.


30 posted on 02/08/2007 3:48:07 AM PST by CalvaryJohn (What is keeping that damned asteroid?)
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To: Cyrano

CE = Christian Era because the so-called "common" is based on the acceptance of AD....anno domini.

CE actually is best presented as Christian era.


31 posted on 02/08/2007 4:56:45 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
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To: Esther Ruth

Thu., February 08, 2007 Shvat 20, 5767

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/823224.html
Peretz to PM: Stop Temple Mount work immediately

By Haaretz Staff and Reuters

The work on the new bridge to the Temple Mount should be stopped immediately for fear of escalation and deterioration in the defense situation, Defense Minister Amir Peretz wrote Prime Minister Ehud Olmert yesterday.

Peretz attached an opinion written by General (res.) Amos Gilad, head of the political-military bureau at the Defense Ministry. Gilad said in his letter the construction was causing considerable damage and would create foment in the Arab world, particularly at the present time, with Israel trying to initiate steps to calm things down with the Palestinians and the Arab world.



Gilad noted that Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas and PA Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh were close to an agreement in Mecca on a unity government, and that an Olmert-Abbas summit is to take place in about two weeks. He also mentioned the planned visit to the region of U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. Gilad also expressed concern that the project had not been coordinated with Jordan.

Peretz reportedly learned late in the day about the decision to begin work at the site. Apparently the move was not thoroughly coordinated with him.

Yesterday Olmert's military secretary, Major General Gad Shamni, and Peretz's military secretary, Brigadier General Eitan Dangot, discussed the project and Peretz's objections.

In response to Peretz's letter, the Prime Minister's Bureau said: "The letter from the defense minister was received a few minutes before your paper approached us, and we are surprised at the fact that the letter found its way to the media so quickly. The Prime Minister's Office certainly does not see itself free to share correspondence on sensitive matters with the media.

"As to the matter at hand," the response continued, "the restoration of the Mugrabi ascent after the place collapsed and was declared a dangerous structure was done in complete coordination with all parties, including foreign countries, relevant Muslim officials and international bodies. As has been explained, this work is being carried on outside the Temple Mount, and they [the repairs] do not constitute any damage to the Mount or Islamic holy places. The work is being carried out by professionals and with complete transparency, entirely for the safety of visitors to the Mount. A thorough examination of the matter would reveal that nothing about the work underway will harm anyone, and there is no truth in the contentions against the work."

The Jerusalem police and other security officials preferred that a new bridge to the Mugrabi gate not be built, but rather that the existing walkway be restored, Haaretz has learned. The police were concerned that Muslim elements in Israel and abroad would use the work at the site to stir up accusations against Israel. Only when the ostensible complexities came to light of the engineering work to restore the ramp, which had been declared a dangerous structure, and only when the Israel Antiquities Authority made clear that even rehabilitation of the old structure would entail the construction of numerous concrete supports and would also require a salvage dig, did the authorities come to terms with and agree to the need for a new bridge.

The decision-making process went on for over a year.

Haaretz also learned that the Waqf (the Muslim religious trust), which so far has not been involved in the public disturbances over the new bridge, has been fully briefed by the police on the plan now underway, although not at the level of coordination or obtaining consent.

The Waqf, as opposed to the branches of the Islamic Movement, has made do meanwhile with verbal protests against the work. An official involved in contacts said Israel is not confirming that the plans were presented to the Waqf so as not to cut off a channel of communication between the police and the Waqf that has been open for years.

Protests in the Arab world continued yesterday against work on the bridge, which is to lead to the Mugrabi Gate of the Temple Mount, and against the salvage dig by the IAA prior to construction of the bridge.

"The Islamic world's reaction to this insulting move should make the regime occupying Quds (Jerusalem) regret (its action) ... Silence over this issue is not acceptable," said Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, according to the state radio.

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad also condemned the excavation. "The nature of the Zionist regime is to ruin and cause conflict," Iran's students news agency ISNA quoted the president as saying.

The Syrians, in a statement by an "official in the Foreign Ministry," according to the official Syrian news agency, said "aggression against Al-Aqsa is a blow to the holy places of Islam" and was against the sensibilities of Muslims the world over.

Jordan's King Abdullah yesterday released an unusual statement warning Israel against damaging the Al-Aqsa Mosque.

Arab news outlets yesterday still played the Temple Mount story, though to a lesser extent than on Tuesday.

Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni said in response to the criticism that "the Temple Mount is the holiest place in the world to the Jewish people," and also that "the State of Israel will never infringe on the freedom of religion for other faiths in Jerusalem."

Livni said "irresponsible elements that know full well that there is no damage here to the holy site" were taking advantage of Israeli democracy "to fan religious feelings to make political profit."

Yesterday the police detained the head of the Islamic Movement's Northern Branch, Sheikh Raed Salah, and six of his supporters, after they came to the Old City's Dung Gate and tried to break into the excavation site near the Mugrabi Gate. A violent confrontation developed.

Police asked the Jerusalem Magistrate's Court last night to bar Salah and his supporters from the capital for 15 days. The Magistrate's Court prohibited Salah from coming within 150 meters of the Old City for the next 10 days.

In another incident, three Palestinian teens were detained after throwing stones at a bus near the Rashadiyeh school on Sultan Suleiman Street in East Jerusalem.

Police continue to maintain an expanded presence in the area of the Temple Mount and East Jerusalem.

Yesterday and today, Muslims under the age of 45 are barred from the Temple Mount, and no tourists or Jewish visitors are allowed.

Palestinian factions, among them Fatah and Hamas in Tul Karm, have called for a new intifada to protect Al-Aqsa. The Islamic Jihad announced that Qassams fired at southern Israel were a response to excavations in the Temple Mount area.

The Justice Ministry prepared yesterday to examine the legality of the work being carried out after it was reported that the IAA is carrying out a salvage dig, which does not require a permit.

An examination of the legality of the permit issued by the licensing authority for construction of a new bridge to replace the rickety wooden one over the ramp connecting the Mugrabi Gate to the Western Wall plaza has also begun, and is expected to be completed next week.



excerpted -

more to this at link


32 posted on 02/08/2007 5:14:02 AM PST by Esther Ruth
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To: Esther Ruth

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=121175

Peretz: Stop Construction at the Temple Mount
09:20 Feb 08, '07 / 20 Shevat 5767


(IsraelNN.com) Defense Minister Amir Peretz asked Prime Minister Ehud Olmert in a letter Wednesday to halt the repairs being made to the Rambam (Mughrabi) Gate at the Temple Mount.

The gate is the main entrance to the holy site, one used by Jews and tourists as well as Muslims.

Peretz cited an opinion written by the head of the political-military bureau at the Defense Ministry, General (res.) Amos Gilad, who said the repair work was causing damage to the site. Gilad added in his letter, which Peretz attached to his own, that the construction would create havoc in the Arab world and said it was important to consider the international political ramifications of continuing the activities.


33 posted on 02/08/2007 5:17:00 AM PST by Esther Ruth
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To: Esther Ruth

WOW
Israel to install cameras to show live Mughrabi footage

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1170359812542&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Feb. 8, 2007 13:49 | Updated Feb. 8, 2007 14:18


Israel to install cameras to show live Mughrabi footage


By JPOST.COM STAFF



Talkbacks for this article: 3

Israel plans to install security cameras at the Mughrabi excavation site which will broadcast real-time footage of the controversial construction outside the Temple Mount, Army Radio reported on Thursday.

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert agreed to the initiative, proposed by Israel Beiteinu MK Yisrael Hasson, who said the move would "prove to the countries in the Arab world that no damage is being done to [the] mosques as a result of the excavation."


Salah insists he'll visit Temple Mount
Meanwhile, prayers at the Temple Mount ended without incident, despite ongoing protests by Islamic groups and hundreds of Muslim demonstrators who gathered at the site on Thursday morning.

Sheikh Raed Salah, the Islamic Movement leader who was ordered to stay 150 meters outside the walled Old City for the next 10 days after trying to force his way into the excavation site on Wednesday, carried through on his vow to return for Thursday's protests.

Salah did, however, keep his distance from the Old City itself as per the court order, and no violent disturbances occurred during the demonstrations.

The Islamic leader was one of seven Israeli Arabs detained by police near the Dung Gate on Wednesday morning after scuffling with police who were guarding the excavation workers.

Salah, who heads the northern branch of the extremist Islamic Movement, had called on Tuesday for an intifada over the archeological dig, which he and other Islamic leaders have claimed is endangering the nearby Al Aksa Mosque.

He was joined in his exhortations by numerous Islamic leaders and groups, including Iran's Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and the Aksa Martyrs Brigades, who have called on the Muslim world to retaliate - violently if necessary - for Israel's actions near the Temple Mount.

The Aksa Martyrs' Brigades declared Wednesday that they would attack synagogues if any damage were done to the Muslim holy site.

Etgar Lefkovits contributed to this report.


34 posted on 02/08/2007 5:22:46 AM PST by Esther Ruth
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To: Esther Ruth

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2007/2/8/worldupdates/2007-02-08T170156Z_01_NOOTR_RTRJONC_0_-286827-2&sec=Worldupdates

Olmert spurns bid to reconsider Jerusalem dig

By Jonathan Saul
JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has spurned a call to consider halting excavation work near Jerusalem's most sensitive shrine, which has angered Muslims and threatened a Gaza ceasefire deal.

Palestinians have warned Israel the work near a compound housing the Dome of the Rock and al-Aqsa mosque, Islam's third holiest site, could derail a shaky truce in Gaza with the Jewish state.


A bulldozer carries out excavation work in front of the Dome of the Rock Mosque, in the al Aqsa Mosque compound, at Jerusalem's old city February 7, 2007. (REUTERS/Ammar Awad)
Militant group Islamic Jihad said it fired rockets from Gaza at Israel on Thursday, which caused no serious damage, in response to the work.

Arab states have asked Israel to halt the digging, which began on Tuesday, saying it could damage the mosque's foundations.

Israel has said the dig in search of ancient artefacts beneath the compound, known to Muslims as al-Haram al-Sharif and to Jews as the Temple Mount, would not harm the sacred site in Jerusalem's walled Old City, at the heart of Arab-Israeli conflict.

A Palestinian uprising began in 2000 after then-opposition leader Ariel Sharon toured the compound.

Israeli Deputy Defence Minister, Ephraim Sneh, said Defence Minister Amir Peretz asked Olmert to reassess the excavation.

"He (Peretz) did not request the work be stopped," Sneh said. "He asked for a discussion to reconsider (the issue)."

"Our problem with the work at the Temple Mount ... is its effect on our relations with important, moderate elements in the Arab world who are very angered by it," he told Israel Radio.

Israel's Haaretz newspaper said Peretz had written to Olmert on Wednesday calling for an immediate halt to the work, fearing it could trigger violence.

An Israeli official confirmed Peretz had written to Olmert, adding that "we are continuing the work".

Olmert's office said in a response: "A thorough examination of the matter would reveal that nothing about the work underway will harm anyone, and there is no truth in the contentions against the work."

The Old City is part of East Jerusalem, which Israel annexed after the 1967 Middle East War in a step that has not been recognised internationally. Palestinians want the eastern part of the city as the capital of a future state.

FEARS OF VIOLENCE

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas's Fatah faction said any damage to the mosque "will lead to a termination" of a November ceasefire deal that has largely calmed Israeli-Palestinian violence in the Gaza border area. The governing Hamas movement said it would spark a "volcano of anger".

Israel's opening of an entrance to an archaeological tunnel near Haram al-Sharif in 1996 triggered Palestinian protests and led to clashes in which 61 Arabs and 15 Israeli soldiers were killed.

Israeli police have reinforced patrols in the Old City and restricted access to the mosque area to Palestinian men over the age of 45, in a bid to prevent violence, a spokesman said, after Islamic leaders urged followers to defend the compound.

Police said they have arrested 30 people in disturbances in the holy city since Tuesday and many are still detained.

"There is no doubt that tomorrow will be the test," Jerusalem police chief Ilan Franco told Army Radio, referring to Muslim prayers on Friday.

The work is part of preliminary excavations which aim to build a pedestrian bridge leading up to Haram al-Sharif. Israeli officials have said the project is essential as an existing ramp leading up to the complex was considered unsafe for use after it was damaged by a snowstorm and an earthquake in 2004.

"I turn to Olmert to think anew," Sheikh Abdallah Nimr Darwish, head of Israel's Islamic Movement, told Israel Radio.

Referring to Olmert's planned Feb. 19 peace talks with Abbas and U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, Darwish said: "Whoever wants to speak about peace does not excavate anywhere in the area around the holy al-Aqsa mosque."


35 posted on 02/08/2007 5:40:20 AM PST by Esther Ruth
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To: Esther Ruth

Actually it means Common Era and not Christian Era.


36 posted on 02/08/2007 5:44:42 AM PST by James Ewell Brown Stuart (I support the President and the war on terror!)
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To: James Ewell Brown Stuart
I wasn't sure which it was, "Common" or "Christian". Looked it up after I posted that answer and realized many places like wikipedia say both. And were I came up in my mind with AC instead of AD I don't know. I guess BC (before Christ) and AC for (after Christ) instead of the correct latin AD.
37 posted on 02/08/2007 6:07:45 AM PST by Esther Ruth
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To: Esther Ruth

Makes perfect since. As on older student who went back to University, I accidentally said A.D. in a paper and was told that the correct term was CE - Common Era. Well, I happen to like B.C. and A.D., so I use them anyway.


38 posted on 02/08/2007 7:16:34 AM PST by James Ewell Brown Stuart (I support the President and the war on terror!)
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To: CalvaryJohn

Call it what you will, when I saw it the first time I read it instantly as Christian Era and that is how I have seen it ever since. I am too old to remold my thought to UN standards and have not the inclination, anyway.


39 posted on 02/08/2007 7:58:30 AM PST by ThanhPhero (di hanh huong den La Vang)
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To: xzins
CE actually is best presented as Christian era

Yes it is, but I doubt you will see it used this way out side of religious publications. I can assure you the MSM never referes to it as Christian Era.

40 posted on 02/08/2007 8:53:10 AM PST by itsahoot (The GOP did nothing about immigration, immigration did something about the GOP (As Predicted))
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