Posted on 02/02/2007 8:55:08 AM PST by dashing doofus
Who, on average, is better paid—public school teachers or architects? How about teachers or economists? You might be surprised to learn that public school teachers are better paid than these and many other professionals. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, public school teachers earned $34.06 per hour in 2005, 36% more than the hourly wage of the average white-collar worker and 11% more than the average professional specialty or technical worker
(Excerpt) Read more at manhattan-institute.org ...
SOrry, Renegade - I have taught too many teachers to buy that schtick. ANyone who can't finish off a bachelor's in education in four years is proving the accuracy of P. J. O'Rourke's "Anyone who has screwed an el ed major knows what's wrong with American education".
The universality of tenure is a myth.
Teacher dismissal in many states like Texas is no more difficult than any other lower level governmental position. I know that in Texas the school districts in which my wife has taught teaching contracts are not renewed for more than two years at a time. To dismiss a teacher in Texas, you just go through the same documentary procedures to show cause that is done at most other large employers today.
I know there are good teachers, but I'm talking about the crybabies posting here. Letting teachers unionize was the death of the US education system.
I've screwed many El. Ed majors ( women )and secondary ed
also . Seemed fine to me of what I can remember . Even married a Bio major .What did you teach them as IMHO you really don't need any book learnin' to teach . You either can do it or you can't no matter what courses you take or how high your GPA
is .
As a homeschooling mom I have heard my son say the same thing. I tell him, "I might have the answer key now, but I've already done all of this before."
"But then compare what teachers in my state make to someone that's been in the corporate world for 30 years and it's relatively low."
BAAAAAAD analogy! In the corporate world, poor performance in meeting competition would assure immediate firing, not tenure, benefits, ad nasueam.
Assume teachers to be divided into private school teachers, public school teachers, and home school teachers (A.K.A "parents"). Then face the sad fact that the home school teachers produce a product superior to both public school and private school teachers.
Then assume the public scruels to be run as a corporate system rather than a socialist/unionist system.
Question: How many teachers would be there at the end of teh day, the week, the month?
No Performance = No Pay. Works in business. Could work in education, too,
Wow! That's not bad in comparison. My husband wanted to be a teacher, but the starting salary was $28,000 in our state.
Oh, please. How about this: Go to college, join the National guard, get your education degree....and then your masters. Then get a job teaching.
No student loans. Good experience. And an understanding that some things are worth working for.
The concept that one has to go to Cornell or some second rate "name" school, drop $100,000 in debt to get an education that is better than you'd get at a state teaching college is simply absurd. And yes, I did go to a private college that costs in the $40k range today (although $6k was a lot then.) And no, I didn't get a better education than my buddy that went the course I described.
And, unless you are teaching Social Studies (which does change from year to year) you will work hard the first couple of years, and once you get seniority the amount of work you put in is entirely up to you. Secondary English, History, and Science hasn't changed much in 100 years.
Everyone thinks they work hard. Jeez....
And then you can go into the world and indoctinate the youth of the country as the government dictates. Or, you can get a degree in some creative field and be independent and constructive.
Depends on the teacher . In my case I taught what I thought was most important ( in the field of science ) Told BOTH sides of the story as well . Drove em' nuts . Administrators are so stupid they can't tell what a REAL teacher is doing anyway .You know the general rule of administrators don't you ?? "$hit floats to the TOP!!"
Not just political preferences, however. I was let go from a job (before getting tenure), so that a local boy could be hired who would coach football, basketball and track. My evaluations had always been high. So, protection from a 'good-ol boy' system helps.
It just struck me ... what would happen if teachers would be considered 'civil service' government employees? just a thought.
Of course, the primary reason that the cost of living on LI is so high is because of the taxes. And most of the taxes go to pay town/county/school district/water district/library district/ police district employees and retirees.
So the cost of housing is still relatively cheap, right?
I would certainly agree that there are teachers who should not be working in our schools. As a School Psychologist I have worked with colleagues who, having a Ph.D. (compared to my measley M.A.) couldn't hold a candle to me, but yet are paid more than I am. They are tenured, and when I brought to the admin some potentially financially disasterous behaviors (law suits) being committed by two of these "professionals" I was essentially rebuked for having "blown the whistle" on them. I now work in another district (my own choice) because I refuse to work where such blatently illegal acts are being committed.
If you truly believe what you posted to me, then you live in a dream world. Do you really believe that a determined administrator could not come up with a legally defensible reason for firing someone given the tenure safeguard was removed? How hard do you think it would be to manufacture a "reason" for firing someone when the only true reason is a personality issue? Not that hard I can assure you.
That is exactly the type of situation that upsets my teacher friends. I think the NEA is not a friend to the kids, or to the high achieving teachers.
It shields underperformers who have achieved tenure. Getting to tenure seems to be the biggest hurdle.
"If you truly believe what you posted to me, then you live in a dream world. Do you really believe that a determined administrator could not come up with a legally defensible reason for firing someone given the tenure safeguard was removed?"
Not a dream world at all. NYC has hundreds of teachers removed from the classroom and placed into non-teaching positions because they cannot be fired without incurring massive legal expense.
I can really only speak on what happens in California. Obtaining tenure is not a hurdle here. It only requires that you show competence for two years. After that, teachers are evaluated every two years, but nothing is really done about teachers with poor evaluations.
All right already - you proved you sleep with a teacher and get benefits from the NEA. Now go play with your crayons and coloring books.
For the whiner about their $700 month payment for benefits. I pay twice that and don't get tenure or any months off for the summer. Let's all play a violin for all those saintly teachers.
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