Is there a legal opinion regarding this situation? (Legit Question)
Posted on 01/30/2007 1:12:56 PM PST by FreedomCalls
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- An elderly man is dead and two Jacksonville Sheriff's Office detectives are on administrative leave after an undercover narcotics investigation ended in gunfire late Saturday.
According to the JSO, detectives Donald Maynard and James Narcisse had been working undercover for about three hours in the 2300 block of Westmont Street when 80-year-old Isaac Singletary approached them with a gun just before 6 p.m.
The officers said they ordered the man to put down the gun. However, Singletary did not drop his weapon and gunshots were exchanged.
Singletary was shot several times. Paramedics rushed him to Shands-Jacksonville Medical Center, where he died.
Less than 24 hours after the fatal police shooting left his uncle dead, Gary Evans told Channel 4 he's mad.
"Eighty-years-old, and they had to shoot him twice or more in order to subdue him. I'm very upset about it," Evans said.
He said his uncle was territorial and mad about the drugs on his street, and would often take his gun and try to scare the drug dealers away.
On Saturday, things went terribly wrong.
"My uncle asked the officer, which he didn't know at the time he was a police officer, to leave his property and he didn't," Evans said.
Neighbors told Channel 4 that Singletary was very protective of his property.
"You don't expect somebody to come pointing a gun at you, and once they do that, the officers will tell them to drop the gun," JSO Chief Dwain Senterfitt said. "We're still investigating what statements were made, but obviously, at that point, the officers' lives were in danger."
Police said they are still trying to figure out if the undercover officers had time to tell Singletary they were undercover officers. They said the detectives had to hid behind a tree to avoid being shot by Singletary.
According to police, the officers had been in the neighborhood since about 2:45 p.m., and had made five drug-related arrests.
"In the course of our undercover activity and making several arrests in this neighborhood, a man we now know to be a resident of that area, Mr. Isaac Singletary, was shot by officers," said Director of Investigations and Homeland Security Micheal Edwards.
Saturday's shooting was the third JSO-involved shooting in three weeks. Unlike last week's case at the Sable Palm Apartments, there is no dispute whether Singletary had a gun.
"There was a confrontation between them and an exchange of gunfire," Edwards said.
However, the question of who fired the first shot remains unanswered.
"He shot at my uncle first. He was the first one to shoot, and my uncle returned fire," Evans said.
"As you know, our investigation into any shooting must be thorough and methodical. At this time, there's a limited amount of information we can share," Edwards said.
As the details of the shooting are being hashed out, scared neighbors and sad family members remember Singletary.
"I looked in his eyes I saw his pain. I felt the pain for him. He never bothered anybody. He's never done anything to anybody. He didn't want anybody in his yard," said neighbor Antionette Douglas.
Is there a legal opinion regarding this situation? (Legit Question)
Well at least he is truly free now. Prayers go out to his family.
The War on Citizens , errr, I mean Drugs, still marches on.
It is against the law to sell drugs, purchase drugs or possess drugs. The cops were doing their jobs in arresting people. Grandpa drew down on the wrong guys.
Sad ending.
The story does not say if they were on his property or not. It does mention that the old man didn't like drugs on his street.
Most residents of drug infested neighborhoods want the cops out there arresting people and getting rid of the problem element. It's sad that he died.
Yup, so next time anyone thinks they might try this make sure to fire first ~ odds are very much against your target being a cop.
I recently saw one of those cop shows taking place in Florida.
The cop was saying the thing they feared most were armed citizens. The reason being the cops behave and looked like criminals. They don't recognize people's property, climbing on roofs, going through yards etc.
Whether the cops properly identified themselves is a big question. A related question, is would or should someone believe them, especially considering so many cop impersonators.
While more facts or coverup to is to come, my bet was this was a wrongful death.
Hey, if incidents like these prevent just one American adult from smoking a joint, it's worth it. We need paramilitary raids in our communities to keep us safe.
Oh, I don't know, odds are the perps are better armed than the cops.
You are throwing up a straw man argument. Most of the drug traffic takes place in poorer neighborhoods and the residents held hostage by dealers and gang bangers want them out there doing their best to bust dealers.
This has nothing to do with the JBT paras harassing citizens.
"It's sad that he died."
It is because he was one of the good guys, it seems. We've all seen in movies where undercover or plain-clothes cops sometimes get confronted by civilians trying to "help". Hate to see it in real life, though.
Oh goody. Another "I'm a 'libertarian' and thus don't need facts" thread.
Oh, now don't throw water on Hunter's parade, he was on a roll.
Make that "some" drugs.
Now Grandpa is yet another example of why the rationality of this whole pile of insanity needs to be re-examined.
I suspect that these undercover officers were selling the drugs and their targets were beig arrested down the street. The old guy probably called the police and after a time went out to confront them.
This is just my guess based on quotes from the story. Sad day. The old timer meant well and was probably a good force in the neighborhood.
Is there a legal opinion regarding this situation? (Legit Question)
Good question. I don't think that undercover officers are above the law. If they didn't have a warrant, would they be trespassers? If the elderly gentleman thought they were a threat, was he within his rights to use deadly force (point a gun at them) to make them leave? (Think Castle Doctrine in Fla.) If they were criminally trespassing, did they even have a right to self defense? (I thought that one generally didn't have a right to self defense if one was committing a crime and that crime lead to violence).
Finally, in the end, could these cops be looking at manslaughter charges? If they didn't have a right to self defense, that sure looks like a possibility.
I think that at the least, a humongous civil suit might be filed against the city.
Any legal eagles got any answers to these questions?
What do you think was for sale in that neighborhood? My bet is crack and smack.
And your point is.......what?
AND IF IT WAS YOUR GRANDPA? Would you be saying that to yourself? NO NO I DON'T THINK SO!!!!!!
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