Elderly Man Dies In Gunfire Exchange With Undercover Officers

News4Jax.com ^ | January 28th, 2007 | Staff

[Centurion2000]

You do not have sufficient information to reasonably conclude that the force was excessive or that the citizen was innocent.

Let's see, he's DEAD. that's pretty excessive.

Citizen innocent? Innocent of what? He was defending his property.

The cops, had they had half a brain should have just LEFT. Since when is a drug bust worth more than a citizen's life?

[thefactor]

realized the flimsyness of your argument, huh? loitering on private property does not warrant brandishing a firearm, imo. if you do, at least take some cover. this guy had bad tactics if he was trying to get into a gun fight in which he was outnumbered. again, your "castle doctrine" doesn't pass the smell test. but neither of us was there so all we can do is monday morning quarterback.

[Centurion2000]

realized the flimsyness of your argument, huh? loitering on private property does not warrant brandishing a firearm, imo

Well thank God you're not in the legislature or courts.

[F.J. Mitchell]

Fair enough then. Cops have just as much right to defend themselves as anyone else.

It's absolutely amazing to me, how some can live to a ripe old age without picking up one smidgen of wisdom along the way.

[papertyger]

realized the flimsyness of your argument, huh?

Hardly.

I am a local. You are not.

I possess a Florida CCW, and so am familiar with our laws concerning the application of deadly force. You are not.

I am familiar with, and associated with, the news organization that reported the story in the first place. You are not.

I know what I'm talking about. You do not.

loitering on private property does not warrant brandishing a firearm, imo.

Does "loitering" encourage drug solicitation...five times?

...your "castle doctrine" doesn't pass the smell test.

I submit your ability to "smell" is compromised by the location of your head.

[F.J. Mitchell]

I personally have believed from the get go that the war on drugs was, is and always will be, the most disastrous , costly in terms of human lives lost and/or shattered and in tax-dollars flushed down the toilet of stupidity,and sadly self inflicted (potentially lethal)(suicidal?) wound, this country has ever suffered.

Despite the stupidity of the fools who declared the war on drugs in the first place and the jackasses who still wage it with all the rabid zeal of jihadist's in heat, this old timer was still way out of line. Whether the trespassers were cops or crooks and if a war on terror did not exist, you can't use lethal force against people you suspect to be pi$$ing on your prize winning roses.

You do have the right to call 911,turn off the interior lights, arm yourself with every weapon you own and blow away any and all who kick down your door and storm into your home without identifying themselves.

[papertyger]

You do have the right to call 911,turn off the interior lights, arm yourself with every weapon you own and blow away any and all who kick down your door and storm into your home without identifying themselves.

Florida law does not require one to cower within the confines of one's home when facing a potential threat to life and limb, neither one's own, nor others.

[org.whodat]

The cops should have had their supervisor contact the man first and get his permission to use his property. They would first have to ascertain that the old man wasn't part of the drug culture on that street or protecting an involved younger family member, which would have been easy to do.

You are joking aren't you? That would infer that these were professional officers and knew what they were doing. :)

[org.whodat]

This post is 100% cynical, 100% unintelligent and 100% worthless.

I agree, it is almost as good as some of your writings.

[org.whodat]

the officers had been in the neighborhood since about 2:45 p.m.

How many square miles in a neighborhood?? Does that mean they had been a mile away , two miles away, a half mile away. Had been in neighborhood is a meaningless statement.

[papertyger]

You do have the right to call 911,turn off the interior lights, arm yourself with every weapon you own and blow away any and all who kick down your door and storm into your home without identifying themselves.

Now that I think about it, with the possible implications of Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law, these police officers might by subject to a charge of plain old murder.

[Unknowing]

She may have been "carrying." I agree that whoever did it was "acting like a cop. . ."

[Centurion2000]

Whether the trespassers were cops or crooks and if a war on terror did not exist, you can't use lethal force against people you suspect to be pi$$ing on your prize winning roses.

that a nice load of horse$#!@ you have there. The rules change when you get to Texas and Florida. Lethal force against trespassers is most certainly authorized. you may not like, but so what?

You do have the right to call 911,turn off the interior lights, arm yourself with every weapon you own and blow away any and all who kick down your door and storm into your home without identifying themselves.

Some people prefer to be self reliant and use the cops for their proper functions, mainly deterrence and record-keeping.

The cops should have LEFT the property. Just because you have a tin star doesn't give you the right to crap all over people's property rights.

[Jezebelle]

I agree the information is sketchy, but it seems clear to me that the old man didn't know or didn't trust who they were, which was the heart of what led to the shooting. That could have been alleviated by the department letting him know ahead of time that they would be there.

[JTHomes]

That's a valid point. I'm not a big fan of undercover cops. They should be in uniform or conspicuously display a badge while on duty. I can certainly see going out to confront what you expect are drug dealers, and they tell you to drop their gun. Even if they said they were police, (I don't think the story said they identified themselves though.) once a situation escalates to pointing weapons, there is a good chance someone is going to get shot.

[F.J. Mitchell]

If you really believed that horse hockey you are spewing, you would already be serving life, for blowing away the UPS man or the pizza delivery guy or a Jehovah's witness or the paper boy or a trick or treater or a member of your family arriving home later than expected. Or sitting on death row for shooting a neighbor's dog for sh*tting in your yard.

It has been my experience that the tougher people talk anonymously, the wimpier they are in the real world.

[papertyger]

It has been my experience that the tougher people talk anonymously, the wimpier they are in the real world.

It's been my experience that United States Marines are tough no matter how they talk.

[papertyger]

If you really believed that horse hockey you are spewing, you would already be serving life, for blowing away the UPS man or the pizza delivery guy or a Jehovah's witness or the paper boy or a trick or treater or a member of your family arriving home later than expected. Or sitting on death row for shooting a neighbor's dog for sh*tting in your yard.

Funny, I believe the same horse hockey he is spewing and I'm not in prision either.

I wonder at what point we get to conclude you are talking out of your hat and have no business offering an opinion regarding Texas or Florida law. Further, that your inclination when predicting human behavior is decidedly liberal.

[F.J. Mitchell]

Maybe, but IMHO it seems unlikely. The law of survival should rule when two armed people face off, and go in favor of the survivor.Everything else being equal of course.

[Centurion2000]

If you really believed that horse hockey you are spewing, you would already be serving life, for blowing away the UPS man or the pizza delivery guy or a Jehovah's witness or the paper boy or a trick or treater or a member of your family arriving home later than expected. Or sitting on death row for shooting a neighbor's dog for sh*tting in your yard.

Do you want to take a crack at explaining this a little better or just let your idiocy stand at rest?

Read more on the story. He told them to leave twice. they refused. He came back to defend his property. and make no mistake. After dark in Texas, you can kill trespassers.

And yes I have defended my property after dark with lethal force. The good news is that they LEFT (kinda the cops should have done) before I had to pull the trigger.