Posted on 01/26/2007 11:28:54 AM PST by Patriot28
A petition drive to get Confederate-themed clothing banned from school grounds has exposed a rift at Hollywood Hills High. The episode may lead the Broward School Board to examine whether its student conduct code should address the Confederate flag.
Sophomore Ilana Hostyk started a petition this week at Hollywood Hills in hopes of pressing officials to ban the symbol, considered a show of Rebel pride by some and a reminder of Southern race-based prejudice by others.
"My whole goal is to ban the Confederate flag from Broward schools," said Hostyk, 15. "People are really offended by it."
Hostyk, who is Jewish, said student display of the flag on campus has caused tension between white, black and Jewish students. About 2,200 students are enrolled at Hollywood Hills. About 41 percent are white, 20 percent black and 35 percent Hispanic, according to district records.
(Excerpt) Read more at sun-sentinel.com ...
It is statements like this that perplexes me. I am trying to keep an open mind. However, post 32 posted the "Declaration of Succession" by Texas which had strong racist language. Yet, I hear again and again, that the Civil War was not racist in nature but about State's rights. How can this be?
President Lincoln, during the most bloody period of the war even offered the Southern States a return to their farms and all will be forgiven but to only meet two conditions; 1) Do not succeed from the Union and 2) Give up slavery. In which the South's reply was that those were the only two conditions they would not give into.
I do want to keep an open mind since so many claim it was about heritage and states rights. I believe all people groups in America should have their heritage celebrated and respected. But how can the claim that the Civil War was not about slavery be accurate?
I can understand the exacerbation you feel in trying to paint a "State's Rights" point of view in the face of a culture full of political correctness. But is it possible, whatever the political bent of today is, that the Civil War was indeed about a part of America that insisted on the right to own another human being and was willing to fight and die for it?
Does she know how many Jews were in the Union Army of the Potomoc under Grant?
How many Private soldiers in the Union Army were willing to die to free the slaves and how many in the Confederate Army were willing to die to maintain slavery?
...well....I honestly don't know. Do I need to know? And if I did know, would that nullify the historic events (for example the Declaration of Succession) and political clashes that lead up to it?
It appears, based on your question, that you are alluding to the genuine intentions of the soldiers who fought in the Civil War. I've heard similar arguments like that before. For example, someone once told me that most Conferate soldiers didn't even own slaves. Okay, I can buy into that, lets just say for the sake of argument, most Confederate soldiers didn't feel that strongly about the right to own slaves (I don't believe it, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt).
But what were the overriding political events, both on the national and local levels that lead up to the Civil War? Was the Civil War something that just happened as a fluke over night? Of course not. It was something brewing for decades and it centered around slavery. Communities debated, fought, and even rioted over the issue of slavery. There was strong political debates in people's homes all the way to the senate. This was not some marginal issue. People on both sides of the issue was very passionate about their point of view. Both those who opposed it and those who supported it were very passionate. In hindsight, those who were passionate about supporting it is not reflected in a very flattering light, but it did happen (strong support for continuing slavery). There were people (and not small in numbers) who were indignant that someone would dare tell them that they didn't have the right to own a slave.
If it was about states rights, then what right was the Confederacy fighting for? High taxes? The right to grow cotton? The right for women to vote? Taxation without representation? Outright independence from the Union for the sake of....what? The term "States Rights" is very vague to me.
The Southern Soldier fought to defend his Homeland from Yankee Invasion. The Northern Soldier fought to "preserve the Union".
Given the Racial attitudes of the Day, both North and South, do you seriously believe that the average Northern Soldier marched off to his death to free the slaves?
No, but I do believe, that the overall political atmosphere surrounding the Civil War, centered around slavery. And that the root issue that eventually led to the Civil War (and the creation of the Confederacy and the Confederate Flag) was the result of that one highly emotional and explosive issue; slavery.
It led to politicians to battle one another in congress to try and overturn slavery by making the new states free states vs those who wanted to make them slave states. This political battle resulted in the formation of the Confederacy, which led to eventual declarations of successions, which led to the Union army having to march South to preserve the Union.
Now, honestly, and I mean no disrespect, but do you really believe a majority of the Southerners of days gone by (and once again, I don't mean any disrespect, nor do I mean to promote any stereotypes), was totally innocent of any attitudes towards slavery? How does a people group hold as many slaves as those in the South (where slaves almost numbered as many as whites) without general overall support of the general population?
Is it really possible, in a democracy, that a small (tiny) number of large plantation owners overrode the sentiment of a Southern public? If most Southerns opposed slavery, wouldn't they have been indigant seeing their fellow human beings treated like property? And in a democracy, wouldn't they have wanted it to end it like those in the North?
The reality is, slavery received the support of the general population in the South. Had they not supported it, there would not have been the political upheaval that occured. And no reason to succeed from the Union, afterall, the Union was a democracy, not a dictatorship.
I just don't care if she is offended. Too Bad. Liberalism really offends me. Can we get it banned?
http://www.thesouthernamerican.org/heroes.html
The Southern Soldier.
I am trying to see things from other people's point of view and am not trying to be antagonistic. I realize the fact that most Confederate soldiers didn't own slaves, it is well documented and no one on either side of the debate doubt that fact.
In the article, it states that most Confederate soldiers were from poor mountainous regions. Now, according to the link, the largest number of soldiers came from N. Carolina, Georgia and Alabama. Are you suggesting, that most of these soldiers came from mountainous regions? So, the MAJORITY of people who were white lived in mountainous regions? And it was a MINORITY of Whites that lived in towns and farming communities and worked in and around plantations and the whole cotton industry? I find that incredibly hard to believe. And what about the vote done by each individual states to succeed from the Union, did these mountainous region not vote to succeed?
If what you are saying is true, then I would have to agree with you. So tell me then, the overwhelming majority of Whites lived in poor mountaining regions far removed from the everyday sight of slavery? All those people, from State legislatures, to plantation owners, to the whole gambit of individuals who dealt with and transported cotton, to individual farmers, to regular people who saw slaves on a regular basis (even if they didn't own them) made up a minority of the South. And the rest poor mountainous folks? Well, then my mind is indeed changed. Tell me that is true then.
And my the question I keep asking everyone who say it was about states rights, what right were the succesioness states wanting? And to a point that they wanted to dissolve the Union. What right was it, that resulted in the Civil War?
I'm not unsympathetic to people wanting to preserve their heritage. But under what circumstance was the Confederate Flag created under?
Lets say I gave you the benefit of the doubt. That regardless of the political wrangling of the times over slavery, the average Confederate Soldiers was just fighting off Union Soldiers marching into their homeland. Then, under what pretense was the Confederate Flag made? Was it made by these people from mountainous regions? Or was it made by the people involved in the political struggle for maintaining slavery? My understanding, is that the Confederate Flag was made up by the Confederate leaders, who did lead the South to succeed. And still to my understanding, it was about slavery.
I can be convinced otherwise, I just want to know what the issue was if it wasn't slavery. What right was the states succeeding for?....which resulted in the Civil War.
All those documentaries that I've seen about the Civil War all point to slavery as the key issue that started it all. It would have to be one of the most blatant revisionism of history if slavery was not the central issue. Historians would be guilty of distortion of truth to the highest degree.
If it had been primarliy about slavery, then Lincoln wouldn't have waited until 1863 to issue the emancipation proclamation. The big complaint from the south was, they didn't like or trust a big "Centralized" government dictating local policies. Kinda like political correctness today. If the Fed's are gonna run everything, why have a state government? Don't get me wrong, I hate racists of any color, but I don't buy revisionist history either.
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And the local policy in question was the legal right for one person to buy, sell and own another. Comparing slavery to political correctness is a stretch even for the most die hard revisionist.
Then the current version of history must be quite corrupt. The most acclaimed documentaries regarding the Civil War all point to slavery as the central issue.
I'd still like to know what specific events took place in regards to big government that led to the Civil War. In other words, I would like to hear a recount of what happened that led to it (the States Rights version that is). Is there a resource you can point me to that will give me a timeline of all the events that led to the Civil War regarding states rights? I am already aware of the slavery version and know where to go for that.
I'm not looking for an editorial, but a real step by step, event by event, that led to the Civil War with states rights as the central issue. Something that is accepted by academic circles.
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