[BillyBoy]

Well, I just a brief search for about an hour looking up Senate threads from a year ago with the words "Allen" and "Webb" in them. I found at least 60 posts expressing the idea (in various degrees of certainly) that Allen would coast to re-election, Webb was a pushover, and that they were more focused on gearing up for 2008. At least 8 or 9 of these were apparently from "Virgina freepers". Here are some examples I copied and pasted from 2006 senate campaign threads:

Webb doesn't have a clue or a prayer. Allen will kick his butt!
Allen has said that he is running for re-election in the Senate. It is many of us that want him to run for president.
42 posted on 03/14/2006 9:56:27 PM CST by TheLion
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1772623/posts?q=1&&page=101

Yeah, if this is all the 'Rats can come up with, Allen is unstoppable and my guess is that they know it. My prediction for 2008 is Allen as the nominee with Guiliani as his running mate.
42 posted on 08/28/2006 2:10:22 PM CDT by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1691421/posts

I agree with everything you said except the part about it "NOT about taking Allen out of the presidential race." Yes it is about getting Webb elected to give the Dems another seat, but it is also about knocking Allen out from consideration in 2008.
114 posted on 09/27/2006 8:17:12 AM CDT by kabar
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1772623/posts?q=1&&page=101#113

His "macaca" gaff supposedly eliminates him from future consideration for President, which I find ridiculous. I still see Allen winning here. Hopefully, this kind of vetting and attacks will make Allen a stronger candidate for 2008 and immunize him somewhat from similar tactics. The Dems/MSM made a major mistake bringing up the Jewish grandfather and the N-word. It will backfire on them.
116 posted on 09/27/2006 9:30:07 AM CDT by kabar
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1772623/posts?q=1&&page=101#113

That is Senator George Allen, the next President of the United States. And that is why the Dems, and the traitorous Liberal Media are attempting to discredit him. They are failing miserably.
35 posted on 09/19/2006 5:26:23 AM CDT by Stallone (Dealing with Democrats IS the War on Terror.)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1772623/posts?q=1&&page=101

Here's a thought - there's a lot of fear over George Allen as a potential presidential candidate so it's important to convince conservatives that he can't win. Here's another thought - you ain't that clever
. 19 posted on 09/20/2006 12:41:53 PM CDT by rhombus
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1772623/posts?q=1&&page=101

[Webb] will be forgotten by the time 2008 rolls around.
3 posted on 08/21/2006 5:07:47 PM CDT by trumandogz
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1687601/posts#2

[The Macaca moment] This, too, shall pass. George in 2008. Easy.
2 posted on 08/28/2006 1:25:26 PM CDT by wouldntbprudent (If you can: Contribute more (babies) to the next generation of God-fearing American Patriots!)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1691421/posts

It's been interesting: the media has tried very hard to keep Allen off the national stage. Then they had a chance to portray him nationally in a negative way and jumped at it. I think they went too far. Allen may have played the media so well that they'll be calling him "our first jewish president" in 2009.
21 posted on 09/27/2006 8:07:27 PM CDT by mrsmith

====================================================== Notice I never said ALL Virgina Republicans are idiots in my original post, though you always seem to interpret things as a personal attack against Virgina. I said the "idiot wing" of the VAGOP figured Allen would roll over Webb automatically, and there were certainly plenty of freepers who expressed that sentimant. I looked at your original posts and you indicated at the time that Allen would have a "tougher fight" with Webb winning the nomination, so obviously some people took him seriously. Unfortunately, alot of the rank-and-file Virgina Republicans refused to admit it was a horse race until the final month (and yes, said all the polls showing the race was neck-and-neck were "lies"), and this complacency among Allen and his supporters killed him. Optimism is one thing, denial of reality is another.

Alot of candidates make the mistake of underestimating their rivals and concentrating on future campaigns. One of the reasons why Clinton was successful in '92 and G.W. Bush in 2000 is because Clinton's supporters didn't spend 1990 hyping his presidential prospects before the Governor's race was over, and Bush's supporters also concentrated on getting him re-elected Governor in 1998 and began touting him for President afterwards. Allen's supporters, by contrast, spent much of 2005 and 2006 fantasizing about his White House prospects. You seem to have selective amnesia here, as you posted a couple "Allen for POTUS" threads yourself when the Senate race was still taking shape.

The George Allen fanclub from outside Virigina also contributed to this mess, figuring he was invincible and they should concentrate on other Senate races.

Everyone makes mistakes. Several Illinois freepers figured Obama would be a weak Senate candidate (I was not among them, I knew Blair Hull would far better to run against), because of his odd name and the fact Bobby "black panther" Rush kicked Obama's butt in the Congressional race. But once Obama won the nomination and our Senate nominee imploded, we pretty much knew it was Obama's to lose.

And of course you can't compare Illinois to Virgina because the demographics are different. Those who whine here that "yankee transplants in northern Virgina" are all to blame might have a point if Virgina was designed like Illinois, and had a city of 3 million people in the northwest corner that voted 81% Democrat (that's what Illinois has, and that's what Kerry got in Chicago. Cook County contains 5.5 million out of Illinois' total population of 12 million. Kerry got 55% statewide, which means the REST of Illinois is pretty solidly Republican or else Kerry would be racking in 2/3rds of the vote statewide)

I can compare the demographics of a section of Illinois that resembles Virgina as a whole, and that is DuPage county. Like Virgina, it hasn't selected a Dem for President since 1964. Like Virgina, it used to be solid Republican on the state level but "northern transplants" from Chicago and "illegal aliens" are moving in, and Dems like Obama are now managing to win there now and then. Like Virgina, the Dems recruited a top tier millitary candidate and poured zillions of dollars into taking that seat. But with that type of demographics, Peter Roskam and his supporters worked their butt off since day 1 and he got 52% in an open race, whereas Allen got 48% as the incumbent.

Lessons can be learned.

And if you are intellilecturally honest, you will admit there was complacently on the part of Virgina Republicans who cared more about his Presidential campaign and freepmail me about where to send those $50. Otherwise, it will just be another example of empty rhetoric like when freeper "PrimeChoice" demanded I "prove" that McCain had voted conservative 80% of the time on what HE deemed "important issues" like abortion, the WOT, and taxes, and when I cited those exact votes, his response was to cover his ears and go "lalalalala"

Now, if I had been wrong, I would have been happy to admit the same. I've been wrong in the past, and I will be again.

[Corin Stormhands]

You seem to have selective amnesia here, as you posted a couple "Allen for POTUS" threads yourself when the Senate race was still taking shape.

Not at all, I've made no pretense about the fact that I've been on the Allen Presidential bandwagon since 1993. Until Webb won the primary, and for a few weeks after that, you won't find a political pundit that would have said Webb could win.

Initially, the Democrats did not expect him to win. They wanted to mount a challenge to derail Allen for 2008. There's no denying that. And I can find you the posts on the Democrat blogs to verify that. As late as July they were crying about the horrible campaign Webb was running.

The "macaca" incident 1) should never have happend and 2) was misplayed horribly. There should have been one initial apology directly to Siddarth and then the Allen camp should have refused to talk about it. Even Senator Allen admits that.

But, that was the crack in the armor that allowed them to wedge in all of their other lies that they'd been building up to discredit him for 2008.

I have honestly never seen, not to mention experienced, the negative, hate-filled campaign that was waged against Allen. The "hate crimes" stories were all out lies. I know the behind the scenes stories and players and I know the facts.

Not to mention The Washington Post writing, at this point, in excess of 500 stories on "macaca" even though they admitted no one knew what the word meant.

If you think Virginia Republicans were complacent about this race, then you just weren't paying attention. I saw the ground game. I know what was going on.

But, let's face it. Sure, the campaign goobered some things up. But you have to couple that with the fact that the media was an adjunct campaign for Webb. His racial history, his history of his temper, his discrimination against women ALL got a pass in the MSM.

And combine that with the fact that Allen lost on a night when Republicans were losing everywhere.

The George Allen fanclub from outside Virigina also contributed to this mess, figuring he was invincible and they should concentrate on other Senate races.

Oh, I won't deny that. But the Virginians knew we had a fight on our hands. And it's also true to say that the "fanclubs" of the other GOP contenders (and some who will never be contenders) wasted no time in trying to discredit Senator Allen for 2008 not giving a rats @$$ how that was affecing our ground game here in Virginia for 2006.

And, I'm sorry, but it is the yankee influence into Northern Virginia that is changing our demographics. There's no denying that. Much of the rest of the state remains reliably Republican.

And, while I wouldn't consider 2001 and 2005 to be "flukes", those years were lost because of the weakness of the GOP campaign for Governor, not because of the strength of the 'RAT. And you have to note that Warner, Kaine and Webb ALL ran to the middle and shifted back to the left after election day.

With Allen, the reality is that back in 2005, he was the one Hillary was worried about (according to an article by Kathleen Parker, among others). And it was at that point the Rats set out to discredit him.

And yeah, this was a shock and a disppointment to a lot of us. For those of us who have believed in George Allen for years (and still do) and who had never seen him lose an election, it was like a death in the family.

Having, I've said on my blog (and maybe even on FR) that I think the campaign staff didn't take the challenge seriously enough, meaning that they didn't prepare their opposition research well enough. They miscalculated. I have theories on that which I won't express openly on the Internet, but there you have it.

And there you have the bottom line, at least for me. It's one thing to realistically assess what is/was going on in the campaign. Heck, I knew the internal numbers, I knew we weren't ahead and I knew how close it was. But was I going to reveal that on a public board that we know is read at least by the loonies at DU and Kos? Of course not.

The statements "Webb lacks substance," and that "Allen should coast to reelection" were quite true in June and they were exactly the kinds of things we should have been saying all along.

But you need look no further than last night's SOTU to understand how volatile politics are. President Bush currently has an approval rating in the 20s, when just six years ago he was in the 80s and sometimes 90s. Things change.

But, we all knew 2006 was an important race, and that we had to get through 2006 to even think about 2008. And to imply that we in Virginia were complacent, or more focused on 2008, is just wrong.

Admit it at your leisure.