Do Smokers Have Rights? The Science and Politics of Tobacco

Cato Policy Report, vol. XVI, no. 6, ^ | November/December 1994 | William Niskanen,Jane Gravelle

[sh0tgun willie]

Jane Gravelle: After the Clinton administration proposed a fairly substantial increase in the cigarette tax as a way of funding health care reform, my colleague Dennis Zimmerman and I wrote a paper entitled "Cigarette Taxes to Fund Health Care Reform and Economic Analysis."* The part of the paper I'd like to talk about is the justifications for increasing the cigarette tax. I'm an economist, so I start with the presumptions that people have subjective preferences about what they like to do and how they spend their money and that, in general, we want to allow people to enjoy their lifetime resources in accord with those preferences. We would intervene in those decisions only under certain kinds of circumstances that we try to delineate and measure.

[SheLion]

You're confusing conservatives with statists.

So we have them in Free Republic as well?!

[SheLion]

Do you have a list of the non-smokers who support EVERYONES RIGHT to do what they want to within the law? I'd better be on the top of that list, LOL!

Oh I don't keep a list of the good people in Free Republic.  We all know who you are and we love you!

[SheLion]

SheLion has an Enemy's List!

Did I say "Enemy?"  No, I did not use that word.

Are you worried that you might be on it?  Because YOU ARE!

[Alter Kaker]

LOL, you know I read all the great conservative thinkers, from Edmund Burke on down, and I must have skipped the part where it says that there's anything "conservative" about being a tobacco-addict or anything conservative about forcing others to subject themselves to the consequences of your sad, hopeless addiction.

Let me know when you get that grassroots movement up and running for the 28th Amendment! Remember, "The Right of the People to be secure in their Addictions shall not be infringed.!" :-)

[SheLion]

It will be interesting to see how people react as they realize personal rights are gradually encroached upon. Maybe they will look back on these days of legislation and discrimination against the smokers as a wake up call that was missed. The day when [insert your personal, legal activity here] becomes the target. To me this more of a control issue than anything.

Well, with all the tax revenue smokers pay to the government and if someday cigarettes are deemed illegal, these same idiots will be crying the blues because it will be THEIR pockets that will be picked by the government to make up for the loss of revenue!

It will be interesting to see how people react as they realize personal rights are gradually encroached upon. Maybe they will look back on these days of legislation and discrimination against the smokers as a wake up call that was missed. The day when [insert your personal, legal activity here] becomes the target. To me this more of a control issue than anything.

Well, with all the tax revenue smokers pay to the government and if someday cigarettes are deemed illegal, these same idiots will be crying the blues because it will be THEIR pockets that will be picked by the government to make up for the loss of revenue!

[SheLion]

Personally I've had with the anti-smokers on FR and have no intentions of bothering to curb my attacks on them any longer. They don't get banned for abusing us, so I expect I shouldn't either, but we shall see.

Yea, crazy isn't it?  I have my suspicions though.................

Personally I've had with the anti-smokers on FR and have no intentions of bothering to curb my attacks on them any longer. They don't get banned for abusing us, so I expect I shouldn't either, but we shall see.

Yea, crazy isn't it?  I have my suspicions though.................

[SheLion]

While I can't speak direectly for SheLion, we've know each other and worked with each other for so long we're pretty much on the same page. This comment of yours is exactly what we've been pushing for years (along with the late Max McGarrity).......

As we've seen with the recent ordinances against trans-ft - this is NOT going to stop with tobacco.........it is only going to get worse.

You know it, Gabz!

[ErieGeno]

As you well know this really has nothing to do with smoking and everything to do with the nanny-state.

I vote that statement the most valuable information on this thread.......

[Alter Kaker]

Did I say "Enemy?" No, I did not use that word.

Oh ok. It's your non-enemies list enemies list. Let me know what my official title is, because I don't want to be accused of inflating my resume.

[SheLion]

My big problem arises when the decision of designated places where smoking is permitted is stripped from the owner of the property and given to those who don't own the property.

My favorite place to eat almost closed their doors after the first smoking ban in Maine in 2000.

The owner then invested in a very expensive liquor license to once again allow smoking and business started to boom again.

They then remodeled.  The place is beautiful.  4 big ceiling air purifiers.  Full menu.  A beautiful glass enclosed non-smoking section.  Sign on the entrance door "This is a smoking establishment.  No one under 18 admitted without guardian."

It is a Sports Bar with the full computer golf game across the back wall;  bunch of big TV's.  Just beautiful.

But that still wasn't good enough for the state.  A full no smoking ban went into effect a year ago January.  I went once after the ban, was so miserable that I couldn't sit there like old times and enjoy the evening that I haven't put myself through that again.

And do you think the state will reimburse this business owner for spending his own money to be able to accommodate everyone?  You can bet they will not.

To all you smokers who can still go into town or the city and go into a restaurant and/or bar or tavern.....order your meal and beverage and smoke, you better treasure every day that you can.

Maine went totally smoke free in 2003.  That was my recreation:  going out for meals a few times a month.  It was wonderful.  I didn't know how wonderful it was until we smokers in Maine lost that right.

So, take it from me!  Enjoy the places that can continue to accommodate you and the ones who still have smoking sections!

[SheLion]

Can we get a peek at the Top Ten?

You are a friend of Helter Skelter? (Alter Kaker).   I think not.  Sorry.

[SheLion]

That you consider being listed as an enemy of free enterprise, private property rights, personal responsibility and a promoter of the nanny state, junk science, government intrusion and expanded government power to be an "Award and Honor" tells me so much about you.......you're now at the top of the list.

And you consider yourself a conservative for what reason?

Sickening, isn't it?  To brag about hating human rights so very much.  Our Country is going to hell in a hand basket!

[trumandogz]

Damn, I thought American For Disabilities Act protection for smokers would take me to the top. However, I should have seen the writing on the wall when you called for a Constitution Amendment protecting smokers.

[berdie]

I'm new to FR..but in my short time here, the smoking issue seems to be one of the most divisive. But I guess that reflects society. That's pretty scary since it should be a minor issue. It would be a lot easier if it were a matter of live and let live on personal issues. I have a hard time with government intervention. Especially when the encroachment invades my personal space.

Myself, if I owned a company, and there was a law passed prohibiting a legal activity in my business...I would be up in arms. I don't see that happening. What happened to free enterprise? So you don't like smoking in my restaurant, bar, bingo parlor..Don't come here. And conversely..if I want to smoke in your restaurant, bar, bingo parlor and you don't allow it..I won't go there.

As far as laws against smoking in cars, homes and public places..that is deplorable.

[Alter Kaker]

To brag about hating human rights so very much.

On the contrary, I support human rights! That's why I want to join with you to build a grassroots movement to pass the 28th Amendment. Can we work together on this?

[texaslil]

Where the heck is a "smoke free zone"???

Been outside lately? Stuck on a freeway? Ever bar-b-que? Camp out? Get your electricity from outer space? Belong to a volunteer fire department? Have a good remedy for forest fires?

Near as I can figure all the self righteous non smokers wish to be hermits. Good thing. Neanderthals one and all. To wit: Look how many eat their meat raw, (I think it's called sushi--known as BAIT in some quarters) ride bikes, but get their poor long suffering brother in law to carry their furniture about for them in their gas guzzleing pick ups.

The truth of the matter is that too many people have so little control in their own lives, it feels real good to beat up on others. Worse, they usually get the government to do it for them.

Flame away kiddo!

[SheLion]

Myself, if I owned a company, and there was a law passed prohibiting a legal activity in my business...I would be up in arms. I don't see that happening. What happened to free enterprise? So you don't like smoking in my restaurant, bar, bingo parlor..Don't come here. And conversely..if I want to smoke in your restaurant, bar, bingo parlor and you don't allow it..I won't go there.

It sure is pathethic how the lawmakers are calling private businesses "public."  See how they lie thru their teeth?

Public property: That which is purchased and maintained by tax dollars for the benefit of all people.

Private property: That which is not purchased or maintained by tax dollars and is for the benefit of the property owner.

Pri•vate
adjective
3. (of a service or industry) provided or owned by an individual or an independent, commercial company rather than by the government.

[trumandogz]

Actually, when the smoking ban appeared on the ballot in my home town, i voted against it. My reason for voting NO was in Solidarity with friends who own and or work in bars. Interestingly, since the smoking ban, bar business in Austin has been better than ever. Of even greater, interest, the ban was overturned in Court however, almost all bars still abide by the ban.

[trumandogz]

I support AK's 28th Amendment!

[Alter Kaker]

It sure is pathethic how the lawmakers are calling private businesses "public." See how they lie thru their teeth?

Out of curiosity, do any of the three of you support the Civil Rights Act of 1964?