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Gentlemen, Start Your Plug-Ins: How does 500 miles a gallon sound to you?
WSJ ^ | 1/1/2007 | R. JAMES WOOLSEY

Posted on 01/01/2007 10:44:24 AM PST by Uncledave

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To: UpAllNight

"One must at least try to be accurate or one loses credibility."

Ok,fine. Are we talking about a delta or a wye-connected 3-phase 480 volt feed? Shall we agree on a 0.85 uncorrected power factor? Do we have a switched power supply?

ah, nevermind, the punchline just got horribly mutilated.


201 posted on 01/01/2007 4:22:33 PM PST by RFEngineer
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To: RFEngineer; Uncledave

I have to echo your comment from #73, there is no way the winds are stronger at night. The daytime mixing brings down stronger winds from aloft, usually that stops at night.


202 posted on 01/01/2007 4:22:41 PM PST by palmer (Money problems do not come from a lack of money, but from living an excessive, unrealistic lifestyle)
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To: Sunnyflorida
"So we drill here and tell the Arabs to go to hell. "

"And the Venezuelans, Mexicans, and Canadians."

Hey! We (Canadians) have a good Conservative government -- we don't belong on that list now.

By all means -- drill (or dig oil shales) and stop running up your national debt to buy oil from terror states.
203 posted on 01/01/2007 4:24:15 PM PST by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: doc30
"Is there a breakdown on a cost comparison?"

Electricity at 12 cents per KWH costs about twice as much per BTU as gasoline. Electricity also has no road taxes. If it got to be a significant source of energy for travel, I'm sure road taxes would soon follow.

204 posted on 01/01/2007 4:25:42 PM PST by norwaypinesavage
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA
If you really wanted to help us you would take about 18,363,582 of our illegal neighbors from the south
205 posted on 01/01/2007 4:28:08 PM PST by tubebender
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To: Balding_Eagle

"Homeowners in my area with electric water heaters can get off peak rates. No conditions on amount of electric usage."

Fair enough, at least for you. It still makes little difference to the viability of electric cars.


206 posted on 01/01/2007 4:29:45 PM PST by RFEngineer
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To: RFEngineer
It still makes little difference to the viability of electric cars.

Electric cars viable? That's a long ways down the road, if at all.

207 posted on 01/01/2007 4:37:31 PM PST by Balding_Eagle (God has blessed Republicans with political enemies who are going senile.)
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To: palmer; RFEngineer

Yeah, I think I might have got that wrong about night vs day.


208 posted on 01/01/2007 4:44:06 PM PST by Uncledave
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To: Balding_Eagle

"Electric cars viable? That's a long ways down the road, if at all."

LOL....hey, that's my line. I'm working this side of the street, find your own thread.


209 posted on 01/01/2007 5:03:09 PM PST by RFEngineer
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To: Eaker

There are private companies doing research. There are companies in both MA and CA selling photovoltaic solar collectors. They have been expensive up to this point, but the sale of their more expsnsive products is providing the money to continue the research to make it more affordable with each successive generation of collectors. As with many new technologies, the government is on the leading edge, but as it becomes feasible, private companies will come in and carry it through. I think this is a good use of government money; look at all the everyday technology that has come from the space program.


210 posted on 01/01/2007 5:07:37 PM PST by SuziQ
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To: RFEngineer
I'll settle for something that uses liquid fuel and gets >50% of the energy to the wheels. That will more than likely involve some sort of electric drive coupled with electrical storage. If they make the storage big enough, I can tool around town on electricity and save the liquid fuel for highway driving.

It's not about what I want though. Something along the line of a next generation ultracapacitor or battery will change how vehicles operate. They will will not rival the internal combustion engine, they will change the market.

At the turn of the century, steam powered ships plowed the waters, then they were replaced by internal piston driven engines and then came back as steam turbines then were replaced again with direct fuel turbines. There are old steam engines that make levels of torque that we really can't match with new technology but the new technology provided benefits that make giving up the old technology worthwile.

If you think that we are at the pinnacle of transportation technology, I'm not the one to tell you that you are wrong but history tends to argue against you.
211 posted on 01/01/2007 5:14:53 PM PST by dangerdoc (dangerdoc (not actually dangerous any more))
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To: RFEngineer
If I am wrong about electric cars, then pull your head out of the aforementioned mason jar and argue the facts.....don't simply say "well we have to try" unless you have some reasonable basis to expect a positive result.

Again with the negativity! How in the world will anyone know if something has a chance in hell of wider use if it's not tried? Obviously, there are electric cars right now, so we know that technology is viable. Why can't they be re-imagined for wider use?

212 posted on 01/01/2007 5:16:11 PM PST by SuziQ
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To: dangerdoc

"If you think that we are at the pinnacle of transportation technology, I'm not the one to tell you that you are wrong but history tends to argue against you."

Transportation? no. Fuels? petroleum provides about the optimal mix of volatility and energy density, so I'd say we've gotten pretty much as close to the pinnacle as chemistry can provide......but you never know.


213 posted on 01/01/2007 5:22:36 PM PST by RFEngineer
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To: SuziQ

"Why can't they be re-imagined for wider use?"

Oh, alright. I may as well just say it: We just suffer a lack of creativity, desire, and, yes....imagination. If it weren't for that (and physics) we'd have viable electric cars for everyone.


214 posted on 01/01/2007 5:27:14 PM PST by RFEngineer
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To: SuziQ
Obviously, there are electric cars right now, so we know that technology is viable. Why can't they be re-imagined for wider use?

The technology is there to have flying cars, too.

The reason we don't all have flying cars is the cost of flying cars isn't worth the benefit of flying cars.

If I could have an Electric car tomorrow for $15K that would have the same performance and cost as much to operate as $15K gasoline powered car, I would go out an buy it. Right now.

1.) It doesn't exist.

2.) There is no indication it will exist in the next 10-15 years.

215 posted on 01/01/2007 5:27:29 PM PST by UNGN (I've been here since '98 but had nothing to say until now)
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To: SuziQ
Obviously, there are electric cars right now, so we know that technology is viable. Why can't they be re-imagined for wider use?

Electric cars aren't viable for most folks. They are mostly viable for bringing in research dollars and tax breaks at this point.

216 posted on 01/01/2007 5:30:17 PM PST by EVO X
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To: UNGN

Just cause it doesn't exist now, and may not for another 10 years doesn't mean that it won't ever exist. Nor should folks just throw their hands up in the air and say "never mind, we can't get it done next year, so we shouldn't even try".


217 posted on 01/01/2007 5:33:02 PM PST by SuziQ
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To: SuziQ
Just cause it doesn't exist now, and may not for another 10 years doesn't mean that it won't ever exist. Nor should folks just throw their hands up in the air and say "never mind, we can't get it done next year, so we shouldn't even try".

If someone is going to pay me try, I'll try until I'm blue in the face.

If you want me to pay someone to try, I'm going to have to ask you to go pound sand.

218 posted on 01/01/2007 5:38:11 PM PST by UNGN (I've been here since '98 but had nothing to say until now)
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To: pepperdog

Agree 100%.


219 posted on 01/01/2007 5:39:51 PM PST by jveritas (Support The Commander in Chief in Times of War)
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To: Erik Latranyi

I don't have the numbers in front of me but this is not a difficult issue to work out. The oil market is a liquid market. Inputs go into the market, buyers buy and the price is set based on supply and demand. The petroleum will be shipped to the market in the most cost effective mannor, meaning that we get more of our oil from Mexico, Venezuela and Canada (not that any of them have been acting like our friends). Even if the molecules do not physically come from the Muslims, our demand puts dollars in their pocket as surely as if you put it in an envelope and mailed it to them.

You seems to have a concern about socialistic electrons. If you don't mind dumping your money into the despotically driven oil market, you shouldn't mind spending it to get out of the regulated electrical market. About a $30,000 investment can get you off the grid for good, my brother-in-law has been off the grid for the last 5 years. Add a few more panels and a windmill and you can either charge up your electric car or make Pelosi and Kennedy buy your excess.

BTW do you have any idea how much money you send to governement when you fill your gas tank. Your transportation is in their hands now. They can jack up their taxes, regulate the octane mandate that chemicals be put in or taken out without your say-so. They can tell you what you can drive on the road and what you can't. They can take your car off the road for being too old. They can also take you liscense to drive it they don't like your behavior. Buddy, your transportation is in their hands now. Don't let the electric car discussion distract you.


220 posted on 01/01/2007 5:45:46 PM PST by dangerdoc (dangerdoc (not actually dangerous any more))
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