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'People laughed as robbers died'
News24 | AFP ^ | 12/26/06

Posted on 12/26/2006 10:27:07 PM PST by LibWhacker

Johannesburg - The South African government's continued failure to bring crime under control is leading a growing number of citizens to start taking the law into their own hands, often with deadly results.

"It is sometimes justifiable," says Frits Kreil, who runs a self-styled "community policing forum" in Johannesburg's northern Randburg suburb.

"People are fed up with crime and resort to killing to protect their lives and those of their loved ones."

In one of the latest such incidents, three members of an armed gang were killed when a local at a pub in the suburb of Emmarentia opened fire as they robbed and pistol-whipped customers earlier this month.

The locals raised their glasses as the robbers lay dying and then rang the police. As one of the drinkers told the Beeld newspaper: "They died slowly, we all stood and laughed."

Police don't come

While reluctant to give their names, regulars at the pub voiced few regrets about the incident to AFP after the shooting.

"We cannot live our lives in fear any more," said one. "Whenever we feel threatened or attacked, we shoot and call the police later."

The feeling that summoning the police is pointless is widespread in one of the world's most crime-ridden countries. More than half a million burglaries or robberies were reported last year while 18 528 people were murdered.

Kriel said that he would neither "criticise nor condone" the practice of opening fire before calling the police but acknowledged that it went on.

"Citizens feel they live in danger, and sometimes waiting for cops is a huge time delay," he said.

While the white middle-class can afford to invest in hi-tech security systems in order to prevent their homes being targeted, residents in the black townships cannot afford such luxuries.

Austin Dube, who runs a scheme similar to Kriel's in the Alexandra township, said his fellow neighbourhood patrollers had more trust from the local community than the regular police.

"We get complaints and also realise that the police do not respond in time to emergency calls because they use cars for their own purposes," said Dube.

"This promotes the idea of people dealing with criminals their own way. They are fed up," he added.

The police and government both claim that they are beginning to make inroads into the crime rate but analysts say that people are feeling as unsafe as ever.

"The reason citizens respond the way they do is because they have lost confidence not only in the police but the whole criminal justice system," said Antoinette Louw of the Pretoria-based Institute for Security Studies (ISS).

"More often than not, people are told there are no (police) vehicles, or personnel. That is why they take the law into their own hands," she added.

The first signs of South Africans taking the law into their own hands was seen in the late 1990s when kangaroo courts began springing up, particularly in rural areas.

Lately however the phenomenon of seeking instant justice has been on the rise.

When a group of street vendors caught up with an armed robber soon after he raided a garage in Durban this week, they beat him so badly that he needed life-saving treatment in hospital.

Two suspected rapists were killed in the same city several weeks ago when a mob dragged them from a police car and stoned them to death shortly after their arrest.

National police spokesperson Phuti Setati said taking the law into one's own hands was "not allowed, and will never be tolerated."

"We do not encourage people to go around taking the law into their own hands. Instead if possible, we encourage them to effect citizen's arrest and call the police," he told AFP.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: bang; charlesbronson; died; laughed; oldwestjustice; pamwechete; robbers; selfdefense; southafrica
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To: KoRn
I recall that South Africa has a total gun ban for its citizens. Funny how the criminals were armed.

And they always will be. Do some people not get that criminals don't care if it's illegal?

41 posted on 12/27/2006 5:15:44 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: FlyVet

y local news featured the local rise in home break ins tonight. Most prominent was a criminal defense lawyer telling us how careful we must be in deciding to pull the trigger on such an animal. Better be nice to those thugs or you might get sued into oblivion. I guess if someone breaks down my door while I'm home, I'm going to jail and will be destitute, because my response will be to empty the clip into him.

Remember,"I was just so scared I didn't know what I was doing until the gun wouldn't fire anymore".


42 posted on 12/27/2006 5:18:34 AM PST by freedomfiter2
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To: Fred Nerks
"You cannot fight terror and street mobs with letters to your Congressmen. You cannot fight accusations of racism with prayer meetings. You cannot appeal to the goodness of your fellow man when the fellow man despises you for your weaknesses and hacks off the arms and legs of his political opponents."

The author of this piece is REALLY ignorant of American history. At one point or another, the colonies faced all of the problems she talks about. That's why the Second Amendment to the Constitution is there. None of the things she worries about will happen UNTIL the RKBA is eliminated.

43 posted on 12/27/2006 5:18:53 AM PST by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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To: metmom
"Do some people not get that criminals don't care if it's illegal?

Liberals don't get it.....

44 posted on 12/27/2006 5:21:07 AM PST by KoRn
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To: dljordan

When MexAmerica is finally a reality you'll see the government actively protecting criminals and putting their boot on the neck of honest citizens.


Isn't that what the Kelo decision was about?


45 posted on 12/27/2006 5:25:30 AM PST by freedomfiter2
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To: Figment

Obviously, South Africans are more sensible that most Muslims...


46 posted on 12/27/2006 5:28:20 AM PST by Little Ray
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To: freedomfiter2
"Isn't that what the Kelo decision was about?"

I reckon you're right about that.
47 posted on 12/27/2006 5:28:25 AM PST by dljordan
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To: Fred Nerks

Post #32 BUMP!


48 posted on 12/27/2006 5:45:08 AM PST by Gritty (Material abundance without character is the surest way to destruction. - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: antiunion person
No cop will officially tell you these two rules but you can bet all his family and friends are aware of it.

Another thing that a cop won't tell you, at least not officially: After you've emptied the magazine, empty your bladder (if you haven't done so already). Make sure that this gets noted in the police report.

The perp's lawyer: "Were you really scared for your life?"

You: "I was so scared..."

49 posted on 12/27/2006 5:54:00 AM PST by Bob
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To: antiunion person
I wonder what the ACLU or these righteous defense attorneys would say if the flame thrower got mounted to any car in the US.

They'd say the same thing the DMV would say: Nope.

50 posted on 12/27/2006 7:10:00 AM PST by jiggyboy (Ten per cent of poll respondents are either lying or insane)
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To: antiunion person

"The number one thing to remember about shooting a criminal in your home, don't shoot him in the back. Number two rule, make sure you kill the bastard. Dead men tell no lies. No cop will officially tell you these two rules but you can bet all his family and friends are aware of it."

IIRC, the new Texas laws let you shoot him in the back. This should be the Law of the Land across the USA.


51 posted on 12/27/2006 7:14:23 AM PST by MikeyGo (Happy Wookie Life Day)
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To: LibWhacker
"Never forget, even for an instant, that the one and only reason anybody has for taking your gun away is to make you weaker than he is, so he can do something to you that you wouldn’t let him do if you were equipped to prevent it. This goes for burglars, muggers, and rapists, and even more so for policemen, bureaucrats, and politicians." — Aaron Zelman and L. Neil Smith, Hope (2001)

More "civilized" people need to figure this one out before things REALLY get out of hand. Sometimes, yes... you do have to kill someone to protect yourself. It sucks, but there it is. Wishing and idiotic laws won't make this little factoid go away.

52 posted on 12/27/2006 7:27:09 AM PST by Dead Corpse (Anyone who needs to be persuaded to be free, doesn't deserve to be.)
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Comment #53 Removed by Moderator

To: LibWhacker

It's not a huge step from "the government won't enfoce the laws" to "If you don't do it, we will"


54 posted on 12/27/2006 8:39:04 AM PST by McGavin999 (Don't bring what you ran away from to my home state-Freeper WatchingInAmazement)
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To: Fred Nerks
It's the STONING that makes me suspect something islamic...

Nah, if it was Islamic, they would be stoning the victen, not the rapist.

55 posted on 12/27/2006 8:44:25 AM PST by McGavin999 (Don't bring what you ran away from to my home state-Freeper WatchingInAmazement)
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To: LibWhacker
Whenever we feel threatened or attacked, we shoot and call the police later."

The only way to do it. In South Africa or right here in the USA.

56 posted on 12/27/2006 6:00:09 PM PST by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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