LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!
Posted on 12/21/2006 11:03:18 AM PST by areafiftyone
CAMP PENDLETON, Calif. - A Marine Corps squad leader was charged Thursday with 13 murder counts stemming from the killings of 24 civilians in the Iraqi town of Haditha last year, his attorney said.
Staff Sgt. Frank D. Wuterich was charged with 12 counts of murdering individuals and one count of murdering six people by ordering Marines under his charge to "shoot first and ask questions later" when they entered a house, according to charging sheets released by defense attorney Neal Puckett.
As many as eight Marines could be charged in the case, the biggest U.S. criminal case to emerge from the war in Iraq in terms of people killed.
The deaths occurred on Nov. 19, 2005.
Lawyers for two Marines already have said they expect their clients will be charged and it’s believed up to six others could join them.
(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...
(PS. Freepmail to you!)
I'm well informed about you and your kind. Try coming up with a real answer, instead of telling me that I'm misinformed because I demand adherance to the constitution.
I will stick a few more blog links on the Haditha charges. They each have a slightly different angle then the majority of articles I have seen. I hope I am not reposting some links.
1) Stars and stripes on preliminary hearing process and when these trials are likely begin.
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=42362
2)Repost of June article on the real Haditha (with photos)
http://chickenhawkexpress.blogspot.com/2006/12/real-haditha-reposted-from-june-2006.html
3)Euphoric Reality -> Unraveling Haditha (complete with several links to other blogs.) Good read. (maybe be repeat of other entries in our thread already.
http://euphoricreality.com/2006/12/22/unraveling-haditha/
4) A soldiers perspective blog
http://www.soldiersperspective.us/?p=1522
LOL! As the late great Bob Hope would say, "That's what you guys are fighting for."
That is all this really boils down to, one question. Did they think they were in danger? That is all a trial will determine. If they reasonably believed they were under attack and the Iraqis were killed in the course of immediate actions responding to those attacks (real or imagined) then no crime was committed. The determinative factor here is the mindset of the Marines involved, and that is the only relevant factor. It is easy to sensationalize this event by focusing on dead children and the press accounts but when it comes time to render a verdict, the only thing that matters is what those Marines thought was coming from those buildings.
The interesting thing to me in these charges is that four officers were charged, although none were actively involved in the shootings. I think I see something developing. The accounts of this incident most people are familiar with came from some very shaky sources and the video and pictures of the incident have not been shown to match descriptions of the event. The people living in this area have had strong ties to insurgents and any eyewitness testimony would be subject to intense scrutiny and questioning by defense attorneys for the Marines involved. All of this means getting a conviction will be tough. Prosecutors must convince a jury that these Marines knew there was no threat and just decided it was time to waste some Iraqis. That is something plenty of the left could easily envision, but this will be a jury of other Marines and they know better.
The prosecutors pretty much need one of the shooters or the others who were there to admit they knew there was no threat. Or for one of the shooters to have admitted that to someone else who will testify. The physical evidence and testimony of Iraqis is not likely to be enough to convict, as it doesn't matter whether there actually was a threat, just whether they reasonably thought there was. Back to those officers, none of whom was a shooter. They are ultimately responsible for the actions of the enlisted men they lead. That responsibility sometimes leads to accountability, and charging four of them leaves plenty of sacrificial lambs and scapegoats. I would bet the case against Wuterich and the other three is too weak for comfort and the officers are charged to make sure somebody fries. We shall see what a trial brings.
A well reasoned article, I pray that the panel of Marines at the Court Marshal understand it fully.
LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!
That's pretty good, Red but I'm kinda partial to t-shirts. :-)
I'm sailing out to find some right now!;-)
LOL!!!!
(I'll be back!)
Sail on, smooth! You've earned it, brother!
FALLOUJA, IRAQ — Lt. Gen. James N. Mattis, who brought the criminal charges in the Haditha case, has shown no reluctance to take hard-nosed actions against Marines.
Mattis, commander of the Marine Corps Forces Central Command, in 2003 initiated an investigation of the treatment of Iraqi prisoners by Marines. The investigation, which came before the Abu Ghraib prison scandal, led to the court-martial convictions of a sergeant and a major in the death of a prisoner and to a revision of Marine procedures for handling prisoners.
He also ordered the investigation that led to murder charges against Lt. Ilario G. Pantano in the 2004 killings of two Iraqis, probably the most high-profile case of alleged misconduct by Marines until the November 2005 deaths of 24 Iraqis in the town of Haditha. Pantano was acquitted.
But Mattis' handling of a case involving the town of Hamandiya, in which seven Marines and a Navy corpsman were charged with dragging an Iraqi from his home in April and killing him, suggests that he is willing to show leniency for junior enlisted Marines who admit wrongdoing. In an e-mail to The Times this week, he referred to the "morally bruising conditions of Iraq" where it is often difficult to distinguish friend from foe.
The Hamandiya case also suggests that he may be less willing to be lenient with more senior enlisted personnel for not showing leadership. All eight defendants in Hamandiya were charged with capital murder, which could have brought the death penalty.
Mattis allowed four of the eight to plead guilty to reduced charges and receive sentences of 12 to 21 months in the brig. He vetoed the military judge's recommendation that the four be given dishonorable discharges.
The four defendants with greater seniority and allegedly more culpability in the killing are to stand trial next year.
As a combatant, Mattis, nicknamed "Mad Dog" by his troops, prefers speed and a relentless attack style. His straightforward and often salty rhetoric is tailor-made for infantry troops.
But such rhetoric belies a man who is deeply read in history and military tactics and who, after the fall of Baghdad, pushed for the military to adopt a conciliatory attitude toward the Iraqi populace.
He was a battalion commander during the Persian Gulf War in 1991 and, as a general, led Marines into Afghanistan in 2001. In 2003, as commander of the 1st Marine Division, he led troops into Iraq.
To each Marine and sailor he provided a one-page order telling them to destroy Iraqi forces but to show compassion for civilians and prisoners: "Engage your brain before you engage your weapon."
In April 2004 he was at the forefront of the fight against the insurgent stronghold of Fallouja.
Later he was assigned to head the Marine Corps Combat Development Command at Quantico, Va., and was one of the coauthors of the military's recently issued counterinsurgency manual.
He returned to Camp Pendleton this year in his current role as commanding general. He has made repeated visits to troops serving in Iraq.
Because of his combat experience and expertise in counterinsurgency, Mattis is rumored to be a possible candidate for a high-level command in Iraq under new Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates.
In a recent trip to Marine outposts in the expansive Al Anbar province, Mattis talked to Marines about training the Iraqi army and winning support from civilians. But he also mentioned the insurgent threat in the province.
"This is not sectarian violence," he told them. "This is Al Qaeda in Iraq. We expect you to kill them."
Visit this member's shop: RightLeaning.com
From the Designer “Show that the treasonous media and Congressman Jack (Bin) Murtha have unfairly massacred the good name of the US Marines with their odious, vicious lies and speculations, and support our brave troops!”
LOL!!! Wonder if there's time to get shipped before Christmas?
WOW! Have they got t-shirts. I marked it.
Just saw a new story from the AP. Think it deserves it's own thread. I'll post and ping soon!
You've been added dhue, welcome.
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