[arnoldfwilliams]

And with that, I close correspondence. It's been interesting. I think the biggest problems I have are with those who confuse security angles with the whole immigration problem, and those who cannot differentiate between things that are bad in themselves and things that are bad because the legislature has said so.

Nonetheless, I've learned a few things I didn't know before, so it was worthwhile.

Probably the biggest surprise was the willingness of people to attribute malign wishes and devious plots in process, based on fantasied associations. Probably that was my problem with the association between Mexican illegal immigration and all illegal immigration (while about a third of illegal immigrants don't fit that profile).

Mortgage brokering is a boring profession, mainly concerned with getting the needs of small businessmen met, many of whom have cash flow squeezes as interest rates rise, and who need the relief: but under the gaze of those to whom no activity is innocent, it's a fountain of evil overspreading the land.

Honi soit qui mal y pense.

[Rurudyne]

arnoldwilliams, since you've decided to close I would like to call attention to the structure of the arguments you have presented.

You have presented us with a dilemma. Dilemmas have been likened to bulls: attempt to wrestle one horn and you take the other in the chest. The only way to deal with these is to try to grab both horns or else grasp the proverbial bull's neck.

As I see it, you have presented two "horns":

The Horn of Social Justice and the Economic Horn.

The Horn of Social Justice questions or posits a number of things: the soundness of our laws, the needs of those who are entering the country illegally, and so forth.

The Economic Horn questions or posits a number of things: the manifest presence of illegals already here most notably.

These are not unconventional defenses of Illegal Aliens––they are generally considered the strong arguments for leniency and tolerance.

However, I've tried to point out that the real issue isn't any of these things. If there is an economic need for more people in our society then shouldn't it be up to us––the Citizens––to determine how that need will be met? Isn't the real issue of social justice if a society has a right to set for itself its own laws and expect that these should be respected? Also if those laws are problematic, isn't it our privilege––indeed our obligation––to look after that ourselves?

As it is your whole position must fall back on the preeminence of Illegal Aliens in deciding for themselves which of our laws they should respect AND of our tolerating their presence once they are here––now that they have made the sovereign decision to impose themselves on us––since they may be of use to us materially.

That is a very crass view, IMHO.

Certainly, it is not one enjoined by the Mexican government when their OWN laws are called into question.

Respectfully, Rurudyne