Posted on 12/17/2006 3:43:18 PM PST by ConservativeMan55
One climber found dead on Mt. Hood
You don't need to worry on your own account.
That was the idea I was responding to. Perhaps your screen name should be "DepartmentofRedundancy."
I must be getting to you, rancor. Your suggestion that I leave is usually the last refuge of those desperate to defend the indefensible.
So, tell me where the flaw is in my analogy.
I will bet their families wonder the same thing.
The people making excuses for this disaster are either stupid, silly, or just plain heartless.
I think I see what you are saying but let me try another tack.
I think people start out climbing for the same motivation folks try other sports. People are trying to overcome their fears, they are trying to strengthen their bodies and their minds, and they are trying to prove to themselves that they can achieve something difficult. There is powerful byproduct of such effort...self-respect.
So, to the extent that by "ego," you mean self-respect, you are correct. If, on the other hand, you define "ego" to mean self importance or conceit, IMO you are incorrect.
Note that I say self-respect is a by-product. I don't think it can be the prime mover or it becomes something ugly and selfish.
A few weeks ago, I saw a show on TV about a man who, after being paralyzed in an accident, had become a wheel chair marathoner. He said that he hadn't realized it, but before he discovered racing, he was gradually giving up on life. But once he discovered racing, he came to realized that he could still do the impossible. He said that racing saved his life.
Anyhow, hopes that clarifies my position.
I hope she makes it to her golden years and enjoys herself so she doesn't hurt the ones who love her by dying an unnecessarily premature death. It's good that she does rescue, but it sounds like her rescue proclivities are more about herself than others if she's that anxious for someone to be in distress.
I have to agree. Rather than any laws being passed not allowing such action how about a waiver for rescue or a declaration by family who will be responsible to pay for a rescue, or a rescue fee large enough to discourage this type of activity altogether. The fee would have to be paid prior to the excursion. If none has been paid then rescue is not at the public's expense. I think those folks in New York spent their own money for helicopters to search for their parents who were found off the road. I believe it is fair enough since they wanted that type of investigation. There are many other areas that could fit in this area also.
Smoking is a risk also but no one wants to pay for that--how is this really any different except this particular search is far more than any smoking related cost in my opinion. Again, I think it is all about choices and taking responsibility for those choices. BUT it seems some choices are looked upon differently and more honorable.
The total cost of caring for people with health problems caused by cigarette smoking -- counting all sources of medical payments -- is about $72.7 billion per year, according to health economists at the University of California.Source
I don't know if this info is accurate (it is 1998 data), but it is safe to say that climbing has no logical relationship to the cost of smoking.
BTW, IIRC the SAR people on the mountain are volunteers.
I agree with a lot of what you say, and I know that undertaking a physical challenge can build character and give purpose to those such as the wheel chair marathoner. I'm not talking about that aspect of it at all. I personally would find mountain-climbing unnecessarily risky, but I also understand that with experience, the right equipment, the right conditions and with careful attention and good judgment, it can be carried out with a minimum of danger when compared to reckless chances people take with their lives.
But I am saying it was reckless and selfish for these guys to go up this mountain at this time of year, and I think it was ego-driven in the sense of chest-thumping. They may have gone into mountain climbing as a sport for personal challenge, strengthen their bodies, what have you, all of which and more can be achieved through less dangerous activities, but nevertheless they chose mountain climbing. Okay. All well and good. But it became something else to them when it drove them to make this decision.
Going up there at this time with no other purpose than some sense of self-fulfillment or something to "prove" was irrational.
Let's equate that to 3 people.
I don't know what IIRC or SAR mean nor what volunteer means when they have use of military helicopters, etc. How does one volunteer military equipment or am I missing something?
The smoking and mountain climbing comparison is "risky" lifestyle choices. Smoking is no more risky than mountain climbing or many other lifestyle choices--unless you have a special interest and draw your line differently.
You, sir, are a genuine nut.
Climbings cost to society is nil compared to that of smoking. In fact, it is a supplier of recruits to the 10th Mountain Division (indeed, the American Alpine Club was one of the parties that pushed the War Dept to give birth to the 10th Mountain Division at the beginning of WWII).
ALL smokers damage their health, most climbers are in great shape.
lol...outlaw climbing because it is the same as smoking. I think you are an uninformed U.S. Representative in search of more ridiculous legislative causes.
I think you need to go back and re-read my posts I never said outlaw anything. And I don't appreciate your name-calling.
"So, tell me where the flaw is in my analogy."
Sure. You're insane.
You may be right in a way. A marathoner or climber is feisty by training. They have developed a fighting attitude and that might get them into trouble when storm clouds are moving in.
I don't think it was done for chest thumbing (at least not on the surface). Athletes are like all the rest of us, when we encounter a challenge, we want to join the fight. That might have been their undoing in this case. Men and women that climb Everest have wise advisors (the Sherpa) whose opinion the climbers trust re: that peak.
lol...you're right. Accusing you of being a U.S. Rep was over the top.
I apologize.
That's beneath you and you should ask the admin mods to pull it.
Climbing is an athletic endeavor and is accomplished with much care. Comparing it with buggering reflects very badly on you.
sw
Yes, many of them are, but there are also extensive military people and equipment assets up there, as well as the local costs already expended.
When the runaway bride pulled her stupid stunt, the entire country was in an uproar about the LE costs involved. She was required to pay some restitution, although I doubt that it was the complete sum expended. Her escapade was much less dangerous than this and she clearly has/had mental issues, yet she was required to pay. I certainly don't see any reason why this should be different just because they were engaged in a sport instead of an aberrant mental health excursion.
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