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To: ZGuy
I suppose it's heresy to post this here, but I believe a lot of the timeless music composed by the greats was made possible by the fact that many of them had the patronage of government.

That is, the kings, queens, princes and other royalty provided subsidized havens of one kind or another for the talented musicians to enable them to create.

Popes and cardinals also sponsored composers and at the same time provided them with a stage for their work......churches, cathedrals, choir lofts, huge organs.......

For sure, the three Bs never had to do ditch digging or store clerking to provide sustenance for themselves and their families.

Saying there's equally talented composers "out there" today is like saying there's Rembrandts, Michelangelos or DaVincis out there. If there are geniuses out there, why have they never been discovered, or why haven't they stepped forward in some manner?

I think it'll be a long time before a genius like Beethoven comes forth Perhaps one of today's kings would be a patron for him, hmmmm.

I'm rather glad there's not even second or third-tier geniuses like Schubert or Chopin or Verdi around anywhere. They'd be on welfare and would not be able to produce. They'd be crucified if they accepted government subsidies to live at home and compose.

Beautiful, stirring music would have little to no paying audience today. This past century, for instance, the music from the "modern" operas are atonal, ugly and unbearable, appealing for the most part to eggheads, social snobs and stoned hippies.

A lot of art is ugly today, so is poetry, so is sculpture, so is contemporary popular and rap music.

A renaissance will have to take place in the future before great beauty and music is appreciated by a goodly part of the masses.

I won't live to see it, but I have hope. In the meantime, I surround myself with the music of the great composers of the past and consider myself blessed to hear it and know it.

A wag once expressed a view on today's popular music for the masses....."Americans as a whole don't like music. They like noise."

I think of that every time I shop at Publix and have to listen to the shrieking canned vocal music playing incessantly

I also think of the several generations of young people numbed by MTV and radio who never saw or heard an opera.......and who think Beethoven is a big, lovable St. Bernard dog.

Leni

43 posted on 12/16/2006 2:31:26 PM PST by MinuteGal (The Left takes power only through deception.)
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To: MinuteGal

I wish I had the time to debate properly but I have to go. In short, new music has always been misunderstood. I can quote several critics of new music claiming it sounds ugly and unbearable, from 1100 until Beethoven's time. In fact, I have just read two large volumes of music criticism from Beet's contemporaries, and they share the view that he was incomprehensible and vague.

Classical music has always been understood by specialists. Today's music is no different. There are geniuses and Beethovens out there. It's just hard to find them because they don't get any exposure.

As far as state sponsorship, only after Haydn were composers really sponsored, and it didn't last long. I wish it had, you can't imagine the greatness you can produced if left to think without worries.

Thank you for all your thoughtful commentary.

More later.


46 posted on 12/16/2006 2:39:42 PM PST by aristotleman
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To: MinuteGal

Schubert and Chopin were third tier geniuses? Wow. The first was music's first lyric poet and in his song accompaniments paved the way for Romantic piano music and the latter virtually invented the modern pianstic vocabulary and was the most forward thinking composer of his time. Anyway Mozart actually did have problems getting a good position at court and Brahms never held one.


50 posted on 12/16/2006 2:52:38 PM PST by Borges
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