Posted on 12/14/2006 11:48:10 AM PST by jodiluvshoes
Members of the congregation at Saddleback Church, the church led by Rick Warren, are evidently being ushered right out of membership for voicing any concern over the idea of Barack Obama being allowed to speak at the church recently.
I received a lengthy letter from a member of Saddleback this morning that confirmed as much:
(Excerpt) Read more at kevinmccullough.townhall.com ...
Not certain that Matthew 18:15-18 is an applicable passage in the case of somebody publically committing sin or preaching abhorrant doctrine, or advocating abhorrant conduct. The passage appears to deal with offenses committed privately, or semi-privately.
Paul confronted public error through public rebuke.
Good point.
...Which is why i am part of a denominational structure where the congregations and ministers are held accountable for their actions and teachings.
i've seen both cases where congregations were subjected to abusive ministers, and ministers subjected to abusive congregations...my old congregation was such. Our denomination was able to correct the problems.
Accountability is a good thing.
And I would agree with that. 2 out of the few hundred mega churches in this country actually act like a chistian churches. The remaining ones are not for profit corporations with plus signs on the front of the coporate palace.
But, I would go around making blanket assumptions about all large
If a pastor of a church is preaching the Gospel, accountability in one's walk, becoming free from the bondage of sin and living a Holy life, they will not be popular enough to get big.
Churches only become mega churches by preaching little c Christ and never suggesting that the church is itself is filled with sinners that need to repent, fall on their knees before the Cross, and beg for God's grace through Jesus.
That would be "too churchy and icky" for most people to sit through these days. It also mught sound too judgemental for the "seeker".
Nothing but ear tickling pop psychology. Just like Paul and Peter commented on 1,950 years ago.
I heard it as "If you find a perfect church and join it, it won't be perfect anymore."
Out of a 20,000 member congregation, how many people ever get to talk to the most high Warren privately anymore? With his "apologetics for Moslem Dictatorship" junkets, book signings, TV appearances, etc., how much actual face to face ministry has lord Rick done in the few years, outside the paid "ministry" staff?
He probably does'nt even know the names of 90% of his "flock". Maybe more accurate to say "can't" visit the pastor privately.
How about borrowing from Groucho Marx, "I wouldn't join a church that would have me as a member!"
As does mine. I'm saddened to see what the church has become. It's almost unrecognizable these days. I'm troubled to see so many following men rather than Jesus. It should not be the pastor's way but Christ's. We have so many pastors who are "stars" now I guess it was inevitable.
Even if you believe that, then there should be no problem in calling Roman Catholics, Roman Catholics. Unless you believe that Roman Catholics of "all believers of all denominations" are the only ones who are disqualified from calling themselves Catholics.
"Romanist" is merely a term that works for me and others given my doctrinal perspective
And "n*****" is merely a term for black people that works for certain white people given their demographic and moral perspective.
I already get it that you feel comfortable using bigoted epithets.
I'm just cluing you in that people who are slandered by such epithets don't share your comfort.
I suppose we could talk about Mary's fake after-Christ virginity
That would be a second thread-hijacking following your judge pal's first act of hijacking.
But you merely underscore my point that you are being deliberately offensive just to get a rise out of people.
And worse, you are dragging the Messiah's mother into your little fit of pique.
Disedifying in the extreme.
This apparently is becoming common even in some smaller churches. At a church I used to attend, you now have to go through the pastor's associate who evaluates your situation & determines if it is significant enough to "take up pastor's time".
"you too"? Do you mean this surprises you?
For me it's "Oh No, Chuck Colson, you haven't fallen for Rick Warren's cotton-candy gospel and I'm-gonna-save-the-world program too have you???"
He's drunk more than just THAT kool-aid. I've always said Jim Wallis (www.sojo.net) and Rick Warren are theological brothers. They both think the church should fix the world. (e.g. not Jesus)
Well, the countdown began a couple decades ago, actually.
LOL
He "knows more than" Joseph Farah (/sarcasm) because he belongs to the Council on Foreign Relations and Oxford Analytica, so he says to Farah:
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53030
''In fact,'' Warren added, ''as a member of the Council on Foreign Relations and Oxford Analytica, I might know as much about the Middle East as you.''
Am I on that list? If not please put me on. Can't remember if I asked you.
I trust him less and less. You gave me one more reason.
I'm glad you have so much optimism about the church in America. I have been having a really hard time finding one, large or small, that preaches the truth anymore, instead of 'self help' messages.
IN GENERAL large churches have tended to gather crowds *especially those that seem to grow overnight* by catering to the unbeliever or immature believers, softening the hard teachings of the Bible or leaving them out entirely.
To be honest, prayer meetings in the absence of good solid Biblical teaching is kind of a waste. Our church did it too. It ends up being a place where people pray *at* you (e.g. we all get together to feel like we're unified and really care about such and such but we're really nowhere near being on the same page, because no one teaches anything clearly here!).
Many of us noticed the subtle kind of preaching at you that is done when someone would pray out loud in a group setting, e.g. "Oh Lord, help us to have Unity, help us to put aside our selfishness and our differences and all work together" etc. in an attempt to guilt the ones with legit concerns into being quiet.
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