Posted on 12/14/2006 11:48:10 AM PST by jodiluvshoes
Members of the congregation at Saddleback Church, the church led by Rick Warren, are evidently being ushered right out of membership for voicing any concern over the idea of Barack Obama being allowed to speak at the church recently.
I received a lengthy letter from a member of Saddleback this morning that confirmed as much:
(Excerpt) Read more at kevinmccullough.townhall.com ...
Just because a church doesn't agree with you on every detail doesn't make them heretic. There are some basics that are crucial. But, there are other things that are up for interpretation...where it's not clear what exactly the Bible means. Even the early, early churches mentioned in the Bible didn't all agree on everything. Looking at the same set of words. Trying to interpret it literally, there was disagreement.
You find a church where you agree with what they believe for the most part so that you don't get in the way. But, you also realize that we're a part of the church to participate in a larger body of Christ. That body is there to Glorify God. Not one denomination or another. That body is there to teach each other, build each other up, and try to reach out to the community around us. You have the humility to realize that maybe the way you understand some things in the Bible is correct. Maybe there are some places where those other folks are right. We'll all know someday when we get to Heaven, but that day isn't here yet. So, a healthy debate is fine. Tearing each other down is not because it just gets in the way of more important things.
Making blanket statements on a board like this that every large church or every non-denominational church is evil does not glorify God. It may prevent someone from trying visiting a church that could have been a good influence on their lives. It makes Christians look petty to non-Christians. It's a turn-off to non-Christians and it doesn't do anything to further the Kingdom. Frankly, it reinforces why a lot of them resent Christians.
People don't need to coming onto a public forum like this and make blanket statements about and entire size or type of church unless you've visited them all and know what they all (each individual church) teach. Especially when we all KNOW there are non-Christians on here.
I strongly agree with you. Well said.
I see no evidence they were anything but an impartial jurist.
Merely an astute observe of human nature and behavior--as I'd hope a jurist would be.
Thanks.
Not very difficult to fathom.
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Not at all.
Sorry for the rant. I went to a church, when I was very little, where people assumed that any church where the people didn't look and act just like then and have the same music they sang were evil because clearly Jesus read the King James Bible and sang "Just as I am" and "Amazing Grace" with one organ and one piano every Sunday and said thou shalt do the same for all time and eternity yourself.
Frankly the best thing for my faith to bring it to life was to get the heck out of that environment.
So, I guess it's sort of a pet peve of mine.
You find a church where you agree with what they believe for the most part so that you don't get in the way. But, you also realize that we're a part of the church to participate in a larger body of Christ. That body is there to Glorify God. Not one denomination or another. That body is there to teach each other, build each other up, and try to reach out to the community around us. You have the humility to realize that maybe the way you understand some things in the Bible is correct. Maybe there are some places where those other folks are right. We'll all know someday when we get to Heaven, but that day isn't here yet. So, a healthy debate is fine. Tearing each other down is not because it just gets in the way of more important things.
Making blanket statements on a board like this that every large church or every non-denominational church is evil does not glorify God. It may prevent someone from trying visiting a church that could have been a good influence on their lives. It makes Christians look petty to non-Christians. It's a turn-off to non-Christians and it doesn't do anything to further the Kingdom. Frankly, it reinforces why a lot of them resent Christians.
People don't need to coming onto a public forum like this and make blanket statements about and entire size or type of church unless you've visited them all and know what they all (each individual church) teach. Especially when we all KNOW there are non-Christians on here.
= = =
Very well and wonderfully put. Thanks.
Your thoughts are exactly why I've hit the back button when ready to post on these threads. Thanks for saying it.
Rick Warren is a stupid creep. First praising Syria's Assad, then Obama, now this.
Very well said and the Bible does tell us to avoid getting involved in stupid controversies. Paul to Titus Chapter 3.
ping
This is what we've been trying to tell you, lo, these many months.
Or, they have met privately, he won't do anything, and they go public, because that's what Matt 18 says to do.
I set the standard of proof against a bro--especially a bro who has done so much in behalf of The Kingdom--rather high.
And when it seems largely to come from sour grapes because of differences over doctrine which The Bible has some ambiguity over . . . that doesn't cut it; for me.
On the other hand, I have a fiercely strong bias in behalf of leaders listening to the lowest person in their ranks. Whenever they are not willing to do that, their pride is in the way and that's a route to all manner of evil.
Moses listened to anyone as long as he could. Shoot--God was ready to meet with anyone at the tent of meeting but the people were afraid.
As to RW, I still mostly leave him to God. I'm not willing to throw rocks over doctrinal differences The Bible is not precise over nor over gossip.
That church is not devoted to Christ as much as it is devoted to Rich Warren.
In my near 60 years, I've seen Mat 18 applied Biblically maybe 2-3 times, if that.
Carping and whining and throwing rocks from a safe distance in public is not Mat 18 confronting and not Mat 18 dialogue.
I admit that many leaders are loathe to cooperate with Mat 18. God will deal with them.
Rick Joyner rightly says, I think, that without a cloak of humility in these last days, the enemy will pick the individual off far earlier than was fitting.
Been down that road.
You are better off for having left.
A good article here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a37b321093ce6.htm
Most people don't even realize it's happening, it's become such a natural part of our society. You learn nothing but how to manipulate via the delphi process too.
http://www.newswithviews.com/PaulProctor/proctor8.htm
Facilitators of Diaprax always minimize the importance of scriptural knowledge (facts) and didactic teaching (lectures) in order to successfully seduce their subjects into group participation with un-offensive human interaction, superficial edutainment, non-threatening worshiptainment and dialectic ‘team-building’ techniques. Diaprax doesn’t teach anyone anything except how to THINK, FEEL and EXPERIENCE what everyone else is thinking, feeling and experiencing. The only thing learned by Diaprax is the process itself. What Diaprax is REALLY all about is unlearning your core values—letting go of anything that keeps you from moving toward the new paradigm of global harmony. It’s about turning one’s ears from the Ancient of Days to the latest noise on the street for spiritual guidance and direction.
Here's another good article:
Is that a royal or a judicial "they"?
Of course you wouldn't see his partiality, because you share his anti-Catholicism bias.
A judge complaining that there isn't enough Catholic-smearing on a forum doesn't sound like a very impartial judge to me.
I feel sorry for any Catholics who passed through his courtroom.
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