Laws prohibit smoking around children (In private homes and vehicles)

[300magnum]

Here is the link. Cannot post from the source. http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20061128/1a_bottomstrip28.art.htm

[Alter Kaker]

I didn't think you would resort to name calling so soon.

I call it like I see it.

. Do you personally know more people who have died from car accidents or smoking related issues? I know far more people who have died from car accidents

Is that supposed to be an argument? Personal anecdotes based on your circle of friends? Death statistics show that far more people die of smoking. I happen to know far more people who have died from tobacco than from auto accidents. You will too, most likely, when you're older.

I know the whole "car" issue bugs you, but I use it to make a point.

Yes, a fallacious one. You claimed motor vehicles were more dangerous than tobacco, which they're not, by any objective measure. On this point you are clearly, unequivocally, most certainly and most undeniably wrong.

Cigarette smoking does not kill children. Period.

Except that it does. Second hand smoke has been linked very strongly to SIDS. According to a 2005 study, smoking causes 1,900-2,700 excess SIDS deaths per year. That doesn't count a great many other health problems (some of which won't develop until the child has reached adulthood) caused by childhood exposure to second-hand smoke.

[Just another Joe]

Second hand smoke has been linked very strongly to SIDS. According to a 2005 study, smoking causes 1,900-2,700 excess SIDS deaths per year.

What study? I'd like to peruse this study.

[Alter Kaker]

This study

[Niteranger68]

Except that it does. Second hand smoke has been linked very strongly to SIDS. According to a 2005 study, smoking causes 1,900-2,700 excess SIDS deaths per year. That doesn't count a great many other health problems (some of which won't develop until the child has reached adulthood) caused by childhood exposure to second-hand smoke.

I can see how precise your "study" is. Go ahead and run with your statistics. I'll stick to what I actually see. Like how my great uncle lived to be 91 while smoking Camel non-filters and drinking cheap gin the last 75 years of his life. Or how my second cousin died of lung cancer in her late '50s while never smoking a day in her life (as far as we know). Yea, real life experience mean nothing.

[Just another Joe]

Ahhh, the same one you referenced in post #34.
The same one that relies on the debunked federal EPA meta-study that used cherry picked data.

Not a very good reference.

[Alter Kaker]

Yea, real life experience mean nothing.

Nope, not when you're talking about populations. Your great uncle and your second aunt are statistical exceptions. If you choose to smoke, you might be one of the lucky few, but I wouldn't count on it. Your odds are slim indeed.

[Just another Joe]

Your odds are slim indeed.

Not quite as slim as you would lead us to believe though.

If you smoke, you have a 30% chance of contracting ANY type of disease from smoking.
Of that 30%, 30% contract a life threatening disease. Doesn't mean they die, just that the disease is life threatening.

That means that you have less than a 10% chance of dying from smoking.

[rottndog]

I thought this stupidity was from California--Surprise, it's Texas!!!!

Niconazis on the march.

[Alter Kaker]

The same one that relies on the debunked federal EPA meta-study that used cherry picked data.

???

What are you talking about? These are the studies referenced:

1. Anderson & Cook (1997),
2. Carpenter, et al. (2004),
3. McMartin, et al. (2002) Canada-US,
4. Dwyer, et al (1999) Tasmania, 4. Elliot et al. (1998),
5. Milerad et. al (1998),
6. Alm, et al. (1998),
7. Mitchell, et al. (1997),
8. Brook, et al. (1997),
9. Rajs et al. (1997).

[RockinRight]

How do places like Texas pass these laws?

[Niteranger68]

I thought you might get a kick out of this:

[Just another Joe]

What page did you find these references? I'm having trouble finding the studies and don't waht to trouble you for their names.

[Alter Kaker]

Start at Page 4-1 (p.111 in the PDF). You might read the relevant portions before dismissing it as "debunked" and "not a very good source."

[Just another Joe]

OK, I could find none of these studies listed in Chapter 4 at all. I did find others and, of course, much reference to the EPA meta-study.

I DID, however, find this little gem, " The rapid dilution of both SS and exhaled MS into the environment and changing phase distributions of ETS components over time raise some questions about the carcinogenic potential of ETS under actual environmental exposure conditions."

I found many other weasel words in the study also, may, suggests, possible, etc.

This is also a meta-study, using specific studies which look like they have been chosen with a specific outcome in mind.

This may convince you but it is not conclusive by any means.

[Alter Kaker]

Hint -- Look at Part B: Health Effects. The studies mentioned are all where I said they are.

[Just another Joe]

You might read the relevant portions before dismissing it as "debunked" and "not a very good source."

My apologies, the stated study was not the one I was thinking about, but it's almost as bad in referencing the EPA meta-study and is, in fact, a meta-study itself.

The other study by one of the "health" organizations in California was the one I was referring to.
If you would like me to I will find the other study for you.

[Just another Joe]

Part B of WHAT?
Are you referring to Appendix B?

[Cogadh na Sith]

Try riding in a "vented" car when it's 20 degrees out and your parents decide that it is more important to smoke than the fact that you are freezing in the back seat.

Don't take your bad childhood out on us.

Did they shake you too?

[glasseye]

I think its time for all reasonable people to start leaving packs of smokes around high school parking areas.....

Time to leave cigars in public parks with matches handy.....

And while I am at it maybe hang out around the local 7-11 and ask the little tykes if they need anyone to buy beer for them!

By the time the 'do gooders' get done perfecting big government and safety fascism this world won't be worth living in any more....

[Eagle of Liberty]

Don't take your bad childhood out on us.

Nice attitude. Thank you for making my other point about the lack of care in this society for others.