Posted on 11/23/2006 8:26:38 PM PST by UnklGene
Your post read exactly the way I thought it would read. Every bullet point and talking point included.
Yes, you are right. But Lewis himself said that Bush listens to him. And even though the President is trying to walk the fine line of diplomacy, sometimes his true feelings slip out and you know that he know exactly what we are up against.
I'd feel better if I were sure of that.
Ideologies are easier to fight than religions and that is what makes Islam so insidious. How do you proscribe (good word by the way) a religious belief in a society that prides itself on its freedoms.
However, they are the carriers of a deadly danger, and must be treated like the carriers of an infectious disease -- cured or quarantined.
With concentration camps...with re-education camps.
Total war (and you don't have to tell me about Sherman, look at my Freeper name) against a religion means total war against the whole umma, does it not?
Now, these are honest questions...
Whereas we can identify the enemy (that's the easy part) the hard part is how to fight a religion that is practiced by over 2 billion people. How do you fight it?
Sorry it gets lonely on Olympus. You do get cable, right?
It is Palestinian Reductionism and it is dangerous for Israel and Lebanon.
"How do you proscribe (good word by the way) a religious belief in a society that prides itself on its freedoms."
Waal, thet's a head-scratcher. A good first step would be to establish that it's not actually a religion. One could then educate the public regarding its myriad depradations.
Certainly, the Mormons encountered a great deal of opposition when they arose in the 19th century, so there's nothing in human nature that mandates against it. The major stumbling block would be that the left would fight any such effort fang and claw.
"With concentration camps...with re-education camps."
I would say rather through deportation to the Middle East. If we put them in concentration camps we'd have to make sure that their standard of living was better than the American middle class's.
"Total war against a religion means total war against the whole umma, does it not? "
Meaning what? Indiscriminate killing of women and children? I would oppose that.
"How do you fight it?"
The first step is to render it innocuous, which means to deny it political power. Once that is accomplished, you can take your time. Over generations, marginalizing Islam would result in a decline in their numbers. Give them the option of staying in the 7th century as Muslims, or converting and coming into the 21st...or 22nd.
Of course, the jailing of Muslim men with Jihadist sympathies would bring a huge reduction in the birth rate. The Palestinians would cease to exist in a generation, as their women found it impossible to conceive a new generation of terrorists.
"Sorry it gets lonely on Olympus. You do get cable, right?"
Yes, but there's nothing to watch except re-runs of Frasier.
I am only asking these questions because I struggle them too and what seemed so cut and dry on 9/11 becomes harder to answer the more I study.
How do you tell a person who has been spoon fed the Qu'ran and the supremacy of the Muslim that their religion isn't real? It's the religious aspect that makes it so hard to combat, especially when it teaches that they are to dominate and not be dominated. (And since the coming of the West to the Middle East, the Muslims have asked themselves how can we return to the glory of the Caliphate)
I don't think the left is going to be your major problem. I think it is going to be the Muslim community itself. It is just not going to let you attack it, nor will it give up its political power (and as long as it controls the oil spicket, it doesn't have to).
When I say total war, I am not thinking Sherman, so I am not saying the killing of innocents. Total war means the destruction of the ideology/religion you are fighting with all your forces brought to bear against it.
So, how do you make total war against a political religious system that believes it is god-ordained? How do you force it into the 21th century when it believes that it needs to return to the doctrines and practices of the 7th century to reclaim the position it once held?
You can deny it active participation in the state power structure, but you cannot strip it of its political power. Its inherent in the Qu'ran.
The problem does not just rest with Islam. How about us? We have preached cultural relativism for far too long and are being held hostage by political correctness. You are fighting a religion and a society that is gaining in numbers and as Steyn says going to take over Europe without firing a shot. You have a fifth column in our own society and a generation being brainwashed in our universities that believes the West is responsible for all the evil in the world.
I believe it is a clash of civilizations and the very first thing the West is going to have to do if we are going to win is find the backbone and the stomach to fight Islam no matter the cost.
Wow, what a post. Permit me to point out a few things you are missing, perhaps due to youthful enthusiam and lack of experiential based pragmatism.
1. Iraq was the easy country. Absolutely correct and so correctly invaded. Iraq could be a staging area should "total" war break out. Establishing such a base was forsightful at the time. Now that events have played out differently people complain in hindsight. This is a common problem. Bush made a strategically correct decision and paid the political price. Google Blackfive exit strategy.
2. Only congress can officially declare war. Democrats and Rino's make this impossible.
3. WOT can include Korea, which is not Islamic. It can also inclue South American drug cartels and any number of other non muslim criminal enterprises that use violence.
4. Fun stuff, but impossible without congressional approval. And the voters supported the demonrats, not Bush. You imbue the office of the President with powers and capabilities he doesn't have.
5. No argument there, but again, how does Bush accomplish their destruction without the consent of congress and of Israel? Where is Israel's responsibility to defend itself unilaterally (which Bush continually supports)? What more can he really do? And by really I mean really, as in factual reality, not the fictional reality of the media.
Your points are typical leftist talking points, btw. They are more about smearing Bush than actually resolving the problem of terrorism in any factual, reality based way.
+
If you want on (or off) this Catholic and Pro-Life ping list, let me know!
Always secure your flanks before going into battle.
Not much other than what they pickup in their little elite own echo chamber.
This is nothing new. Guess who won the test of wills back then? And the damn moron who lost the test is still a hero inside the echo chamber while the guy who won created a movement that shakes the world.
The DU talking point that we should have invaded Iran instead of Iraq "because it's more dangerous" always makes me a little crazy because it so obviously ignores the obvious.
I try hard to remember that most people haven't looked at a map and when you show them one, they usually get quiet (unless they're moonbats).
That is the perfect strawman, because if you say to a leftist: then, okay, let's invade Iran, they will reply what about North Korea.
Don't who I'm supposed to have learned my "talking points" from. I couldn't name you a single "elder" who agrees with me. Savage might, but I've never actually read or listened to him. Anyway, thanks for your good wishes.
"How do you tell a person who has been spoon fed the Qu'ran and the supremacy of the Muslim that their religion isn't real?"
In most cases, you don't. That's why I mentioned quarantine.
"I don't think the left is going to be your major problem. I think it is going to be the Muslim community itself."
If we weren't contaminated with leftism, we would have "the backbone and the stomach to fight Islam no matter the cost."
"It is just not going to let you attack it"
If we attacked now, with everything we have, it would be like George Foreman stepping on a ladybug.
"nor will it give up its political power (and as long as it controls the oil spicket, it doesn't have to)."
No, that would require military force.
"Total war means the destruction of the ideology/religion you are fighting with all your forces brought to bear against it."
I can support that.
"So, how do you make total war against a political religious system that believes it is god-ordained?"
You start killing combatants, and don't stop until you are in possession of the field.
"How do you force it into the 21th century when it believes that it needs to return to the doctrines and practices of the 7th century to reclaim the position it once held?"
I am not really interested with forcing them into the 21st century. I am content to quarantine them, and let the medical science of the 7th century lead them into extinction. Of course, if their children were all taken away from them as infants to be raised Christian, that would hasten the process.
"You can deny it active participation in the state power structure, but you cannot strip it of its political power. Its inherent in the Qu'ran."
You can reduce the number of people among whom it has political power to a few thousand, simply by jailing jihadists so they can't procreate, and by allowing them to run their own medical system. Further, you can make sure those few thousand don't have anything more dangerous than swords and horses to fight with.
"The problem does not just rest with Islam. How about us? We have preached cultural relativism for far too long and are being held hostage by political correctness."
Thus my earlier remarks about the left.
"I believe it is a clash of civilizations and the very first thing the West is going to have to do if we are going to win is find the backbone and the stomach to fight Islam no matter the cost."
I could hope that we would first find the backbone and the stomach to drive leftism completely out of our systems...political, legal, educational, and media.
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