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It's The Economy, Stupid (Nation: Election Results Weren't Just Driven By Iraq War -huh???)
The Nation ^ | 11/21/06 | Christopher Hayes

Posted on 11/21/2006 12:14:53 PM PST by presidio9

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To: HHFi

"They seriously expected to hold on to blue collar Republicans and Reagan Democrats who were having to work three jobs to keep from losing their homes because of $3.50 a gallon gas, skyrocketing mortgage rates and utility bills, doubled credit card minimum payments, and new laws designed to make it harder even to declare bankruptcy?"

____________________________________________________________

Property taxes nearly doubled here in Ct in the last 5 years too.


41 posted on 11/21/2006 12:51:46 PM PST by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: Vicomte13

because everything you cited is the engine that creates more jobs. IMO


42 posted on 11/21/2006 12:53:12 PM PST by thinkthenpost
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To: Vicomte13
Every wage earner pays a nearly 8% FLAT tax on his income: Social Security and Medicare. But the Social Security tax stops on compensation above $90,000. Why? And Medicare isn't imposed on the price uptick from executive stock options. Why not? And capital gains are taxed at 20%, but wages are taxed at 35%. Why?

Because SS benefits are capped out, and people in the highest tax brackets don't even qualify for Medicare. And capital gains taxes are capped out lower because the investor already paid income tax on the principal. And because investment, not taxation, is what creates jobs in the firstplace (and thereby more taxation).

Incidently, SS and medicare are not taxes.

And what are you doing here on FR?

43 posted on 11/21/2006 12:53:30 PM PST by presidio9 (Tagline Censored)
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To: Vicomte13
Politicially, the right thing to do is skew the tax structure and job security towards the middle.

A family of 4 making 40 grand pays practically nothing in income taxes.

The bottom 50% of wage earners pay 5% of the income taxes.

If we skew things anymore towards the middle we'll have to declare the "rich" indentured servants.

44 posted on 11/21/2006 12:53:37 PM PST by NeoCaveman (Have you thanked the rich person who subsidized your share of taxation today?)
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To: HHFi

Well said and echos much of what I have heard and thought over the past 18 months.


45 posted on 11/21/2006 12:53:58 PM PST by Hydroshock ( (Proverbs 22:7). The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender.)
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To: KMAJ2
Some people have no clue about economics and fall prey to emotional appeals and arguments.

&&

I would rewrite your statement as

Most people have no clue about economics and fall prey to emotional appeals and arguments.

46 posted on 11/21/2006 12:54:24 PM PST by Bigg Red (Never trust Democrats with national security.)
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To: presidio9
We actually have very few if any factories in this country that compete against slave labor. That hypothetical is a favorite among socialists, but things like textiles are not generally manufactured here.

Actually, we have quite a few. Just about any industry you can name with factories in the US is looking to expand in China. When you pay people pennies a day, it looks very attractive.

Funny you mentioned textiles. There used to be a lot of places that made textiles, but they couldn't compete against slave labor.

And yes, unemployment is low (although the methods for finding it, like inflation, are always changing), and that is part of the reason we have so much illegal immigration going on.

47 posted on 11/21/2006 12:54:39 PM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Vicomte13
As a practical matter, it means spending $5 for a pair of socks instead of $2.

More people benefit from $2 socks than benefit from $5 socks.

There's an inherent tariff on foreign goods merely in the extra cost of shipping. If Americans cannot produce as good or better quality sock for the same price, then they should get out of the sock business and find something they can do competitively. If so-called "slave" labor can produce a higher quality product that our domestic skilled labor can... I guess it's not much of a skill then, is it?

48 posted on 11/21/2006 12:54:44 PM PST by Ramius
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To: presidio9

We USED TO have a lot of textile manufacturing in this country. Now we don't. Why? Can't compete with overseas labor that doesn't have OSHA standards or other basic protections.

There are an awful lot of "used to's" in US industry - things America USED TO make, but now imports, because the imports are cheaper, because of rock bottom labor standards.

And Americans who USED TO do those manufacturing jobs? They've had the hell squeezed out of them, are watching their pension plans fall apart, and are increasingly voting Democrat.

When you see the Republicans get swept in Indiana and Ohio, and those states go blue, you are seeing a power shift that can't be recovered.

So, the GOP can either decide to skew things towards the working middle, or the Democrats will do it. What isn't going to happen is a maintenance of the current status quo, because the pain and insecurity levels are ratcheting up too high for too many people.


49 posted on 11/21/2006 12:55:05 PM PST by Vicomte13 (Aure entuluva.)
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To: rhombus
The only thing that has ever raised living standards in the history of the world has been Capitalism and the amount of Capital invested per worker.

The current Regulatory and Tax environment, almost entirely created by Democrats due to their fanatical desire to punish "the Rich", has resulted in a climate where it is more advantageous for Businesses to move off shore or substitute Capital Equipment in place of labor.

None of the posturing, Democratic crypto-Socialists every created a dime wealth or a single job.
50 posted on 11/21/2006 12:55:21 PM PST by ggekko60506
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To: Vicomte13
Dead right.

You've got a typo in there. He's dead ~wrong~.

Just tryin' ta' be helpful. :-)

51 posted on 11/21/2006 12:56:08 PM PST by Ramius
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To: Vicomte13
We USED TO have a lot of textile manufacturing in this country. Now we don't. Why? Can't compete with overseas labor that doesn't have OSHA standards or other basic protections.

As I pointed out (and you ignored), with unemployement at a historic low, your post is irrelevant. Please don't waste my time.

52 posted on 11/21/2006 12:56:36 PM PST by presidio9 (Tagline Censored)
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To: presidio9
The economy is hotter than Catherine Zeta Jones.
There are rules regarding the use of that name here...


53 posted on 11/21/2006 12:56:57 PM PST by NeoCaveman (Have you thanked the rich person who subsidized your share of taxation today?)
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To: taxed2death

My property taxes have gone up 40% in the past 5 years here in TX, under republicans.


54 posted on 11/21/2006 12:57:45 PM PST by Hydroshock ( (Proverbs 22:7). The rich ruleth over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender.)
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To: NeoCaveman

Much better.

Gots to follow da rules.


55 posted on 11/21/2006 12:58:17 PM PST by Ramius
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To: redgolum
Actually, we have quite a few. Just about any industry you can name with factories in the US is looking to expand in China. When you pay people pennies a day, it looks very attractive.

Not the same thing as slave labor. The point is people are not not working in this country.

56 posted on 11/21/2006 12:58:24 PM PST by presidio9 (Tagline Censored)
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To: MikeA

Let in 12 million illegal aliens and encourage rampant illegitimacy through our welfare policies and you're going to naturally create income disparities between those who play by the rules and those who don't.

##
Good answer!!


57 posted on 11/21/2006 12:58:43 PM PST by Bigg Red (Never trust Democrats with national security.)
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To: Vicomte13
So, the GOP can either decide to skew things towards the working middle, or the Democrats will do it.

So the GOP must become liberal, or risk losing everything. This is the second time this week that I have read this kind of twisted logic from a "conservative" here on Free Republic

The only way the GOP and conservatives can win is to become liberals. If that's what it takes to win, then what's the victory about????

58 posted on 11/21/2006 12:59:59 PM PST by been_lurking
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To: Vicomte13
No the Constitution requires the Federal government to maintain the military.

The other two are extra-Constitutional. Go ahead and close them.
59 posted on 11/21/2006 1:01:21 PM PST by BenLurkin ("The entire remedy is with the people." - W. H. Harrison)
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To: Vicomte13

Oh, so your "solution" is to raise taxes not lower them. How brilliant.

I can honestly tell you that a family making $50K a year doesn't quite give a rat's ass about how much in taxes some guy is paying who makes a million a year. So your solution to raise taxes on the "wealthy" is a loser.


60 posted on 11/21/2006 1:02:12 PM PST by VeniVidiVici (What's the one elected position Ted Kennedy has never held? Designated Driver.)
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