Fox News Radicals Obsession

fox news tv ^ | 11/17/06 | fox news

[mirkwood]

Turn on Fox News now. A very good terrorist study hosted by ED Hill.

[Stultis]

Glenn Becks special was better.

Just finished watching the weekend repeat. Had been kicking myself for missing it during the week. Excellent stuff. Also the ratings were good, so Beck may well have paved the way to more exposure of our enemy's agenda. This is extremely important.

[EnochPowellWasRight]

"You could have said the same thing, at some point, about Andrei Sakharov, Lech Walesa, not to mention thousands and thousands of other Soviet/Communist dissidents (most nameless) during the Cold War."

The Soviet dictatorship didn't actually have the conceit that they were on a mission from Allah to support their cause. Your example fails, however, as Sakharov and Walesa were anti-Communists. Your "fifth column" would need to be made up of anti-Muslims....

"So why do you counsel the exact opposite strategy: lumping dissidents with our enemy, pretending they don't exist, and thereby making it easier for our enemy to marginalize and intimidate his own "fifth column"?"

That's the approach that will get more of us killed - waiting and hoping for this fifth column. Without a rewrite of the Koran, it's doomed to fail, anyway. We must confront the Islamic ideology squarely.

We confronted Communism squarely.

[Stultis]

Me: "Indeed I agree, even insist on emphasizing the fact, that there are MANY fake moderates."

I should emphasize that even more. In fact exposing the impostitures of fake moderates is one of the most important ways we can support real moderate Muslims.

[Stultis]

Sakharov and Walesa were anti-Communists. Your "fifth column" would need to be made up of anti-Muslims....

Wrt the position of our enemy, anti-Islamists ARE "anti-Muslim," even if they claim to be Muslim. Our enemy's success depends on Islamism being accepted as mandatory and monolithic within their own cultural context at least (although such acceptance in the liberal West also helps them immensely). Again, why you would want to ENDORSE the truth of this key, and false, claim is something I can't understand.

BTW, Sakharov consistently focused his dissidence on issues of nuclear arms reduction, opposition to ballistic missile defense and human rights. He never openly denounced communism to my knowledge. It's not clear (at least to me) that he ever was specifically "anti-communist". It's enough that he was a dissident to the Soviet system.

Or should we not have supported his crusade unless he came out against communism specifically? Of course not. He hurt our enemy and confound his aims in any legitimate way that we can. We don't require dissidents to conform to some abstruse formula. It's enough that they dissent, in whatever fashion.

[EnochPowellWasRight]

" Our enemy's success depends on Islamism being accepted as mandatory and monolithic within their own cultural context at least (although such acceptance in the liberal West also helps them immensely). Again, why you would want to ENDORSE the truth of this key, and false, claim is something I can't understand."

You haven't shown that the "extremist Islam" is not fundamental Islam.

[EnochPowellWasRight]

"In fact exposing the impostitures of fake moderates is one of the most important ways we can support real moderate Muslims."

The problem with your entire premise is your obstinate refusal to realize that ISLAM ITSELF IS NOT MODERATE.

[Stultis]

The problem with your entire premise is your obstinate refusal to realize that ISLAM ITSELF IS NOT MODERATE.

Neither is Judaism or Christianity, by the standard you apply to Islam: i.e. woodenly following scripture (supposedly, although this is in fact impossible) without interpretation.

If Christians or Jews followed their books in the same fashion that you imply Muslims must do, then they would be killing witches, enforcing strict laws of diet, clothing, hairstyles, covering womens' heads in churches (and confiscating their jewelery) even possibly carrying out campaigns of mass genocide if so ordered by God (as Moses and Joshua supposedly were).

Very few Jews or Christians read or interpret their holy books in such fashion. Granted that Muslims do so, but that's no reason to insist that they're RIGHT in doing so, as you (and the Islamists) do.

Granted that most followers of religion believe that their religious practice is more or less rigidly determined by the content of their holy books, but in reality that's just a happy delusion. In fact, and quite obviously on the most cursory examination, all major religions have undergone vast amounts of evolutionary change over time, and are constantly continuing to do so.

Islam (or any major religion) is not determined by what some book says, but entirely by how its adherents practice it. Every holy book, the Koran included, is potentially compatible with a wide and diverse array of practice. Every major religion is highly diverse, and the diversity of Islam is our strongest weapon against our enemy in preventing him from accruing power and influence.

I continue to be mystified by how strongly you wish to deny the reality of this diversity (the same thing our enemy is trying to do with his own internal propaganda) instead of using it against our enemy.

The Koran admittedly presents some special problems, having been written by a founder who was a warrior and a violent man, and one who wedded his religion to the politics of the state, but such problems can ALWAYS be overcome by interpretation. (For instance those Muslims who reject the integration of religion and politics note that the modern state did not exist in any meaningful sense in the time of Mohammad.) Why do you wish to deligitimize those are have overcome these problems by denying them recognition as speaking for Islam?

[EnochPowellWasRight]

"Neither is Judaism or Christianity, by the standard you apply to Islam: i.e. woodenly following scripture (supposedly, although this is in fact impossible) without interpretation."

You clearly do not understand any of those three religions.

"I continue to be mystified by how strongly you wish to deny the reality of this diversity (the same thing our enemy is trying to do with his own internal propaganda) instead of using it against our enemy."

I recognize the enemy. You do not.

"Why do you wish to deligitimize those are have overcome these problems by denying them recognition as speaking for Islam?"

That's just it - they don't speak for "Islam".

[bayouranger]

That's just it - they don't speak for "Islam".

BUMP!

[JewishConservative]

I've watched both Glen Beck's "Exposed" and Obsession. There are both similar but extremely important for every American to watch. There was also a two hour show about Iran on the Discovery Channel last night. I also thought Glen Beck's interview with Benjamin Netanyahu last friday was very good as well. I also noticed that on the serious episodes of Glen Beck they don't have the perky red headed anchor woman Erica Hill on. We must never let anyone take our freedom away. On Glen Beck's show tonight he breifly interviewed one of the few Muslim women who was willing to speak out against radical Islam and how Islam discriminates against women. Apparently she had her speaking appearance at Brown University cancelled by both a Muslim student organization and also by HILLEL! Unbelieveable. This Islamic threat is horrible enough but it baffles me that liberals in the Jewish community either don't see or choose to ignore this threat, the worst threat we have faced since Hitler. Liberalism is dangerous and plays into the hands of the terrorists.

[Dark Skies]

It's merely a bastardization of Judeo/Christian writings spun into a death cult.

Maybe or maybe not.

It depends on whether or not there is another dimension...a spirit world.

If there is (and devout Christians believe there is), islam might be more than just a simple, cobbled together knockoff of Judaism and Christian.

It might be the clever design of Forces of Evil

As Paul said in Ephesians 6:12...

...we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

[Gondring]

Does reading the Old Testament tell us the same about Jews and Christians?

[firewatch]

That was an excellent exchange between you and Stultis.It brought the two generally held views of Islam and the problem it has created face to face.
I would like to see all those points on both sides considered by all in any discussion or search for a cure.It should give people who are studying the problem and wish to help find a solution ,a starting point.People who can think so rationally and put their thoughts in words will be most welcome.
In the meantime may I suggest,staying in shape,staying watchful,allying yourself with fellow Americans of like mind.And always be ready to take a stand
regardless of the size of the herd surrounding you.

[Sonny M]

But calls for Peace is not what I found, unless that is defined as a one-world Islamic brotherhood.

FWIW, alot of muslims don't like their "faith" being referred to as a religion of peace.

They see it as implying pacifism which (don't laugh) is specifically barred in the quran.

[Sonny M]

How is it we are still alive?

Nobody said they were smart.

[CommieCutter]

I think what it is is that Islam was kind of diluted for so many years and they are "peaceful" to a certain degree--almost like a moderate-Islam. But this new wave of Islam is a grassroots movement that I believe will spread and take Islam's majority back to it's original intent; spread by the sword.

[mirkwood]

I was trying to mind-meld with you. It didn't work.

[fhlh]

anyone know when this FIRST aired on FOX?

[Capt. Tom]

I bought a copy of the Koran, and read it. I'm not going to attack the religion or sincere followers. But calls for Peace is not what I found, unless that is defined as a one-world Islamic brotherhood.

The Koran is only part of the religion.

Read the Hadiths for further clarification and edification of how the religion should be practiced.

The Hadiths are about the life of Allah's prophet Mohammed, his example of how to be a good Muslim and his interpretations of how to conduct yourself while doing Allah's work on earth. - tom

[caddie]

I can help with this discussion, because I deal with muslims who are professional, and ostensibly here in the US to get technical training and maybe (or probably) stay here.

There are only two kinds of muslims as far as I can tell. There are the crazy, screaming, on-the-tube every night doing something violent, then, there are the ones I deal with.

The ones I deal with are as nice as the day is long. They will invite you over to their houses for dinner. They will talk with you rationally about politics. But if you probe into what they believe, they are just as adamant about converting whitey to their religion as the crazy, on the TV guys.

In fact, these technical guys will be the ones who sit in judgment of us after we get rounded up for not praying five times a day. They will be the ones who judge to have us beheaded. They will be the media-savvy ones, who make it all make sense to the dumb-@$$es in our country who are sitting around trying to make sense out of these animals.

Deport all you can, and stop letting any of these people into the United States.

Teach your kids about the Constitution, and how the WHOLE WORLD wants to take it away from us and enslave us. These muslims are just the most vocal ones. Many are in our own Congress and populate the Democrat party.

Go to church, and raise your kids to be Christian, if you are Christian. Go to Synagogue, and raise your kids to be Jews, if you are a Jew. If you are uncommitted or nonbelieving, then, commit, and believe.

This country is as susceptible as any large empire in history was or is, to be destroyed, by enemies without and enemies within. Restore, defend, revere, and build up our people and our country!! Do not turn your back on it.

And most important, recognize these extremely toxic enemies for what they are: would-be killers and destroyers of you, your family and friends, and our whole nation and people.

Wake up.