HOA Rule Forbids Couple To Smoke In Their Own Home Judge Upholds Homeowners' Association Order

TheDenverChannel.com ^ | 11/16/06 | TheDenverChannel.com

[TheKidster]

GOLDEN, Colo. -- A judge has upheld a homeowners association's order barring a couple from smoking in the town house they own.

Colleen and Rodger Sauve, both smokers, filed a lawsuit in March after their condominium association amended its bylaws last December to prohibit smoking.

"We argued that the HOA was not being reasonable in restricting smoking in our own unit, nowhere on the premises, not in the parking lot or on our patio," Colleen Sauve said. The Heritage Hills #1 Condominium Owners Association was responding to complaints from the Sauves' neighbors who said cigarette smoke was seeping into their units, representing a nuisance to others in the building.

In a Nov. 7 ruling, Jefferson County District Judge Lily Oeffler ruled the association can keep the couple from smoking in their own home.

Oeffler stated "smoke and/or smoke smell" is not contained to one area and that smoke smell "constitutes a nuisance." She noted that under condo declarations, nuisances are not allowed.

The couple now has to light up on the street in front of their condominium building.

"I think it's ridiculous. If there's another blizzard, I'm going to be having to stand out on the street, smoking a cigarette," said Colleen Suave.

For five years the couple has smoked in their living room and that had neighbors fuming.

"At times, it smells like someone is sitting in the room with you, smoking. So yes, it's very heavy," said condo owner Christine Shedron.

The Sauves said they have tried to seal their unit. One tenant spent thousands of dollars trying to minimize the odor.

"We got complaints and we felt like it was necessary to protect our tenants and our investment," said Shedron.

The Suaves said they would like to appeal the judge's ruling but are unsure if they have the money to continue fighting. They said what goes on behind their closed doors shouldn't be other people's business.

"I don't understand. If I was here and I was doing a lawful act in my home when they got here, why can they say, 'OK, now you have to change,'" said Colleen Suave. "We're not arguing the right to smoke as much as we're arguing the right to privacy in our home."

Other homeowners believe, as with loud music, that the rights of a community trump the rights of individual residents. The HOA is also concerned that tenants will sue those homeowners for exposure to second-hand smoke and this could be a liability issue.

The couple said that they would like to unload their condo and get out of the HOA entirely, but they are not sure if the real estate market is right.

[SheLion]

You have to be a smoker to believe that crock.

And you must be an anti not to believe the truth.

Check out the newsletter sometime. It will be quite the eye opener for you. 

But of course you won't.  You think the world should rotate on your azz and anything YOU don't like has GOT to be banned.  Well, sorry.   We smokers aren't going anywhere my friend!

Check out the Newsletter, updated weekly for news in your area:
 The United Pro Choice Smokers Rights Newsletter

Darlene Brennan - The Smoker's Club, Inc. - New England Regional Director
The United Pro Choice Smokers Rights Newsletter - http://www.smokersclubinc.com
Maine Smokers Rights - http://www.geocities.com/shelioness/mainerights.html
mailto:darlene@maine.rr.com - Respect Freedom of Choice!

[SheLion]

There was no mob, It was a vote. I think voting is a good thing. I love the direct approach.

You guys LOST. Get over it.

And like I posted from a fellow Freeper:

Florida passed with less than 20% of registered voters caring enough to show up to vote on the ban.
13% voted for and won.
80% of Floridians didn't care.

Actually, if people would start getting menu's from these restaurants before the bans, then get menu's after the bans are implemented, it would help.
In Florida prices increased 15-20% in many of the chain restaurants within a couple of weeks. I wouldn't have caught it if we hadn't had take out menus before and after to compare.
Our non smoking friends were furious. They boycotted them on principal. And continue to. We now just gather in each others homes.
Outback Steakhouse had probably the largest increase.
Seems odd, to jack prices like that, when all these people claim how much better business is after the bans.
The smaller places that only sell limited food to be able to cater to smokers, had no increases at all.
I think if more of the public really understood what the "clean air" that they didn't care about anyway is costing them, attitudes may change.

[SheLion]

OSHA and the Environmental Health Department prove secondhand smoke is NOT a health hazard.

 
500 ug (OSHA safe level) divided by 3.3 ug (median reading Applebees) = measured airborne nicotine* levels are 152 times safer than OSHA regulations ie. In other words NO HEALTH HAZARD as per OSHA workplace indoor air quality standards.
(snip)

There is no recognized safe level of exposure to all the substances of secondhand smoke.

That however, is a disingenuous statement, every harmful substance known to mankind has a safe level of exposure......it's called OSHA permissible exposure limits. And if you believed that false premise, no recognized safe level of exposure, we would have to ban drinking water due to the level of arsenic naturally present. We would have to ban the very air we breathe due to the CO2 levels present. (CO2 is fatal at a 20% concentration but with every breath we inhale a 4% concentration).

Secondhand smoke does not rise to the level of being a hazard, as proven scientifically. Therefore even though you may be offended by the smell of tobacco smoke; no government entity has the authority to ban secondhand smoke on the argument of public health hazard - that is a disingenous argument.

Did you notice the pro-smoking ban lies and rhetoric have become more vocal in the media lately? They are frantically trying to defend the indefensible. Perhaps another $100 million from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation would help.

[SheLion]

Smokers have no idea how horrid their stench is to normal people.

THEN STAY AWAY FROM SMOKERS HOW HARD CAN IT BE???!!!!

[SheLion]

yep, they like to pretend the problem is other people. Of course the tobacco industry loves that, probably underwrites their opposition to any laws making smoking illegal in public places.

Get a grip.  Big  Tobacco screwed us.  We can't stand Big Pharm OR Big Tobacco!!!!

[SheLion]

Smokers are apparently the new "Catholics, niggers, and other undesirables"

These people sound like they are lap dogs of Al Quada! heh! They would make nice suicide bombers, wouldn't they????.

[SheLion]

Smokers are undesirable and not because of their beliefs or their color.

They stink places up. They don't acknowledge that they have a responsibility not to stink places up. They blame others and call them names when others complain. They demand to indulge in their habit in an infantile way when they are curbed.

Guess what?  My "stink" can be washed off, but your attitude never can!

[SheLion]

[SheLion]

Maybe smokers need to think about quitting.

When HELL freezes over !!!  It still is a legal commodity you know!!!!

[HiTech RedNeck]

I lived in an apartment which had similar problems (neighbor's smoke heavily infiltrated my unit). After the maintenance guy slapped some duct tape over the wall holes under the kitchen sink of both our units, the problem mostly abated.

Methinks the property owner should have hired a good engineer instead of lawyers. Tobacco smoke isn't the only annoying thing that can carry through the air. Building openings for plumbing are a major source of air leaks. Differences in air pressure between units (like from bathroom and stove hood ventilation fans, or loose furnace exhaust piping) can also encourage air leaks.

[SheLion]

Let go of your resentment, and just let us be in peace.
Smokers have been asking for this for years to no effect.

I agree.............

In America today, two groups are most actively engaged in falsifying history: the American Civil Liberties Union and the anti-smoking movement.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Breathing is fine as long as one home doesn't have to inhale from where others are exhaling.

[SheLion]

Breathing is fine as long as one home doesn't have to inhale from where others are exhaling.

Breathing is fine as long as one home doesn't  have to smell the stench of boiling Cabbage!!!!

ugh!

[Bonaparte]

"My husband smokes in the garage and now my car stinks."

That's strange, my car emits exhaust and now my cigarettes stink.

[Bonaparte]

"They're full of little Napoleon's and snotty busybodies."

Right you are. My Dad lived in one of these places. The little committee that ruled it with an iron fist was full of insufferable meddlers and petty tyrants. I told him it was like living in the old soviet union but with plumbing that worked.

[Howlin]

You should hope you never need anything I have.

Why on earth would I ever need anything you have? I'm perfectly capable of providing for myself. Sounds like I may have described your front yard, huh?

[from occupied ga]

The check is that if you don't like the "Constitution" (or method of amending) you don't buy.

Guess you didn't read the article - They changed the restriction AFTER the couple bought - duh

[cajungirl]

Words, insults, more words, more insults.

Howlin, that is apparently the case here. They are like some kind of screaming talk show mob insulting anyone who disagrees.

They wonder why the HOA took action and the judge ruled in their favor. I suspect the people in that building acted exactly like these people here.

Teenagers act this way. Addicts act this way.

I am not surprised at the way this goes. This is how some smokers act when asked not to smoke. THis is why the HOA took action.

[cajungirl]

No you cannot wash it off. YOu can shower, wash your hair, brush your teeth but you still stink. THe smoke has permeated your lungs and skin. And your closet full of clean clothes stinks. The house you live in stinks.

You can't smell it but ask any person who does not live in a smoker's house and they can smell it. And honest coworkers will tell you that you smell.

But people can avoid you and your house.

It is when as in the case in this article describes your smoker infiltrates another person's living space that the problem starts.

You can insult, call names, post multiple posts, shout, and in general act like you are on some kind of rampage. You can manipulate, distort, call in reinforcements and insult some more.

But you don't win an argument that way.

What you can do is appreciate that others hate your smoke, and you can not inflict it on them.

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

I would not limit that to just tobacco smokers either...