HOA Rule Forbids Couple To Smoke In Their Own Home Judge Upholds Homeowners' Association Order

TheDenverChannel.com ^ | 11/16/06 | TheDenverChannel.com

[TheKidster]

GOLDEN, Colo. -- A judge has upheld a homeowners association's order barring a couple from smoking in the town house they own.

Colleen and Rodger Sauve, both smokers, filed a lawsuit in March after their condominium association amended its bylaws last December to prohibit smoking.

"We argued that the HOA was not being reasonable in restricting smoking in our own unit, nowhere on the premises, not in the parking lot or on our patio," Colleen Sauve said. The Heritage Hills #1 Condominium Owners Association was responding to complaints from the Sauves' neighbors who said cigarette smoke was seeping into their units, representing a nuisance to others in the building.

In a Nov. 7 ruling, Jefferson County District Judge Lily Oeffler ruled the association can keep the couple from smoking in their own home.

Oeffler stated "smoke and/or smoke smell" is not contained to one area and that smoke smell "constitutes a nuisance." She noted that under condo declarations, nuisances are not allowed.

The couple now has to light up on the street in front of their condominium building.

"I think it's ridiculous. If there's another blizzard, I'm going to be having to stand out on the street, smoking a cigarette," said Colleen Suave.

For five years the couple has smoked in their living room and that had neighbors fuming.

"At times, it smells like someone is sitting in the room with you, smoking. So yes, it's very heavy," said condo owner Christine Shedron.

The Sauves said they have tried to seal their unit. One tenant spent thousands of dollars trying to minimize the odor.

"We got complaints and we felt like it was necessary to protect our tenants and our investment," said Shedron.

The Suaves said they would like to appeal the judge's ruling but are unsure if they have the money to continue fighting. They said what goes on behind their closed doors shouldn't be other people's business.

"I don't understand. If I was here and I was doing a lawful act in my home when they got here, why can they say, 'OK, now you have to change,'" said Colleen Suave. "We're not arguing the right to smoke as much as we're arguing the right to privacy in our home."

Other homeowners believe, as with loud music, that the rights of a community trump the rights of individual residents. The HOA is also concerned that tenants will sue those homeowners for exposure to second-hand smoke and this could be a liability issue.

The couple said that they would like to unload their condo and get out of the HOA entirely, but they are not sure if the real estate market is right.

[SheLion]

One can enjoy that which one is addicted to. Actually alcohol and drug addicts say the same thing. They deny addiction and say they just enjoy a toke and a drink.

Well, guess what!  I do not drink and I do not do drugs.  All I do is smoke cigarettes which are quite legal.

And guess what? What I do is none of your business.

Must be nice to be a Conservative ANTI, eh?  No wonder our party is so forked up!  heh!

[SheLion]

So I take it that you will fight for my right not to breathe a smokers smoke?

Why are you reluctant to state our smoking behavior?

You are quite willing to state your political behavior, your opinions about other peoples arguments.

(You really want your teeth  in me doncha! hehe)

And yes, I do fight for smokers sections AND none smokers section.  This should be left up to the business AND the person.  And NOT Big Government!!!

And why are you so concerned about breathing a smoker's smoke?  Why don't you take responsibly for yourself and stay away from smokers?

Do you really want nanny government to protect you?  Can't you do this for yourself????

BTW, I won't be so quick to forget you.  I have added you to my list of the Free Republic ANTI smokers!

Darlene Brennan - The Smoker's Club, Inc. - New England Regional Director
The United Pro Choice Smokers Rights Newsletter - http://www.smokersclubinc.com
Maine Smokers Rights - http://www.geocities.com/shelioness/mainerights.html
mailto:darlene@maine.rr.com - Respect Freedom of Choice!

[SheLion]

So I take it that you will fight for my right not to breathe a smokers smoke?

Taken from a letter to the Editor in LA:

All citizens do NOT have any "right" to breathe clean air.  If we did, then all planes, automobiles, trucks, factories, and breweries (the source of toxic poisons in the air) would be banned. Only then could everyone "breathe truly clean air".

The Report by the Surgeon General, Richard Carmona, who is a self-described rabid anti-smoker, does not show any "new evidence" as they claim. As the Report itself states, it is merely a compendium of previous reports and biased "studies" written by and/or paid for by the anti-smoker industry. No new studies, no new evidence.

No one has ever died from being around secondhand smoke but this conveniently escapes the anti-smoker zealots.  Coronary heart disease is usually genetic in origin, but it's politically correct nowadays to claim that secondhand smoke is the culprit. Never mind that no unbiased, scientific study has ever proven that secondhand smoke has ever caused anyone any harm; the real truth isn't on their agenda. 

The anti-smoker campaign has never been about health, it's always been about power and control by The Nannies (along with millions of dollars for the anti-smoker and pharmaceutical industries).

[SheLion]

One can enjoy that which one is addicted to. Actually alcohol and drug addicts say the same thing. They deny addiction and say they just enjoy a toke and a drink.

Really?!

[SW6906]

It never ceases to amaze me - especially here on FR - that people cannot understand the simple concept of freedom: freedom of association, freedom to run a business the way one wants, freedom to do whatever (legal) activities one wants to within ones home on the property they own and pay taxes on.....

Like I've said before, why can't I start an all-smoking airline if I wanted to? If I thought I could make a buck at it, if employees were hired knowing it was a smoke-filled environment, why can't I?

We are far from free........

And no, I don't smoke. Never have, besides the occassional (<1/month) cigar. It's about freedom.

[SheLion]

My husband smokes in the garage and now my car stinks.

Fabreze works wonders. You should try it sometime!

[SW6906]

The place where I work is near a sewage treatment plant. On most summer days, it gets pretty "ripe". Sometimes the smell can be overwhelming. There is a stairwell that few people use during the summer as it has little or no ventilation and the smell gets trapped in there. Whew!

Should I demand that they shut down that plant as I have a "right" not to breathe that foul-smelling air? ;o)

[SheLion]

DENIAL!!! You're an addict.

AND YOU'RE ONE BIG CONSERVATIVE AZZHOLE!

If I am, why does it bother you so much?  You don't pay my bills OR buy my cigarettes!

You are an idiot.

[tpaine]

I agree they should understand the rules are dynamic and can be changed.
But to think they would regulate what one can do in the privacy of their own home is unrealistic.
If smoke can breach a unit, then food odors can as well. At what point will the majority decide to prohibit the cooking of certain foods because they don't like those smells either?

There we have the ~real~ issue.
--- At what point will a majority decide it has the power to prohibit most ANYdamnthing, just because 'they don't like it'..

Are there constitutional limits on majority rules?

-- A rapidly growing faction on FR claims not.

[SheLion]

It never ceases to amaze me - especially here on FR - that people cannot understand the simple concept of freedom: freedom of association, freedom to run a business the way one wants, freedom to do whatever (legal) activities one wants to within ones home on the property they own and pay taxes on.....

Like I've said before, why can't I start an all-smoking airline if I wanted to? If I thought I could make a buck at it, if employees were hired knowing it was a smoke-filled environment, why can't I?

Some one DID start a airline for smokers!!!!

Smokers' airline ready for take-off

In Germany!!!!!

[SheLion]

The place where I work is near a sewage treatment plant. On most summer days, it gets pretty "ripe". Sometimes the smell can be overwhelming. There is a stairwell that few people use during the summer as it has little or no ventilation and the smell gets trapped in there. Whew!

Should I demand that they shut down that plant as I have a "right" not to breathe that foul-smelling air? ;o)

Oh Gawd! LOL

We have a 'starch factory' in town. Stinks to high heaven!

But hey!  It is providing jobs for these people, that's why we tolerate it.  And my town is a SMALL town.

hehe

The place where I work is near a sewage treatment plant. On most summer days, it gets pretty "ripe". Sometimes the smell can be overwhelming. There is a stairwell that few people use during the summer as it has little or no ventilation and the smell gets trapped in there. Whew!

Should I demand that they shut down that plant as I have a "right" not to breathe that foul-smelling air? ;o)

Oh Gawd! LOL

We have a 'starch factory' in town. Stinks to high heaven!

But hey!  It is providing jobs for these people, that's why we tolerate it.  And my town is a SMALL town.

hehe

[SheLion]

Check out the Newsletter, updated weekly for news in your area:
 The United Pro Choice Smokers Rights Newsletter

[SheLion]

Antis: What to expect
The Cold Sharp Slap Of Reality
Please email and snail mail this new page to everyone you know,
and all your local politicians. Thanks!

[SheLion]

Sorry.  The other was a bad link.................

Anti's:  What to expect.......

The Smoker's Club, Inc. Encyclopedia

Encyclopedia Page: Antis: What to expect

Action	Antismoking Extremists Say	Folks say	The Cold Sharp Slap Of Reality
A Stranger Comes To Town	We are here to help, you can't avoid a ban because EVERYONE is doing it, for the good of the children.	We can decide what we want on our own properties, we can hang signs and let the public decide where to spend their money.	Antismoking Extremists think you are too stupid to know Big Pharmaceutical supports them, and they count on the fact that you will believe all their lies because they said so.
Battle Lines Being Drawn	We are not including the casinos and private clubs, so don't worry, you don't have to fight us. If anything, the ban will give you more business.	Nothing is said because there is nothing to worry about. You are still believing every little thing your new friends say.	As soon as the ban is passed, they will go after the casinos and private clubs. This divide and conquer technique works all the time. The Antis may demand the change themselves, or they will use mis-guided private business owners to do it for them under the guise that there is no "level playing field" which ends with no exemptions at all. You just got conned Bubba, they played you like a cheap fiddle!
Smoke Screen	Let's include smokeless tobacco products in the ban. We don't want those horrid people to have anything. Let them buy Big Pharm stuff to quit smoking! In fact, let's tell them that "Cold Turkey" doesn't work so we can get every dime we can out of them and make our nicotine delivery products the only legal ones.	Nothing is said. You are too worried about the ban to notice the fact that anything about smoke shouldn't include smokeless products.	You let the next step of the Anti plan slide by. Shame on you. THE ANTI-TOBACCO RECIPE FOR SUCCESS 1. Choose an industry. 2. Regulate the industry. 3. Tax the industry. 4. Sue the industry. When one source of money dries up, return to Step 1 and repeat. By S. Phillipe
Ban Is Passed	Gloat, gloat, giggle, strut. Now we can get away with anything. Cue up the next deep pocket!	WHAT?! That's not right, that's not what I voted for. This isn't what I thought they meant, what do you mean I can't smoke in my own one person office?!!!	This is when the Newsletter picks up new readers. Lots of them. They are very unhappy people who have to work thru the rage, depression, and finally agree that they got bamboozled by highly paid strangers with a packet full of junk science that it would have been politically incorrect for mere sheeple to take a close look at. Antis won't stop at a town, they will go for the state. Don't let them get a foot in your door.
Patio Issue	Now we need to make more changes to the ban and tighten up the loopholes. Let's start with no smoking outside as well.	I should have the right to allow my customers to smoke on my new patio if I want. I spent a lot of money building it because you said I could!	You opened the flood gates. You can close them, or watch your business get washed away. Overturn the whole ban, or watch more and more bans come in until grandpa's business is closed. First it's inside, then it's outside seating areas, then it's on the sidewalk.
Noise Issue	It's time to get rid of all the bars, or, ban all smoking on the sidewalk, for the good of the children.	You have got to be kidding me! Where did you think my customers would go to smoke when you banned smoking inside?	The Antis have you so far under their control now that you will waste your time and money in a fight about the noise issue, which you could solve easily by getting rid of the ban and letting people drink and smoke inside like they should be.
Litter Issue	We need to ban smoking on beaches, in parks, everywhere those nasty smokers are littering.	Enforce the litter laws that already exist. We don't need a separate one for cigarettes, one for diapers, another for soda cans, etc...	The Antis are not interested in enforcing perfectly good existing laws. They are only interested in getting new laws put in to justify their incomes and paychecks.
Economy Issue	Just like we said, now the non-smokers will come to your place of business and you'll do better than ever.	Where are the non-smokers? My business is going under!	Do I really have to say this? You bought into the Anti lies. So did the good folks on the Ban Loss and Ban Damage pages, and others.
Car Issue	We have to stop those stinky smokers from smoking in their cars, for the good of the children. It doesn't matter if it's a convertible car and it is moving at 55 MPH. We can say, "Only 20 seconds of smoke exposure will kill them instantly." No one dares argue with us or we'll say they are a front for the tobacco company. No one is allowed to question us!	Hey, wait a minute, I don't have any kids! Even if I did, that would be up to me what I want in my own car, not you.	Remember, every new ban the Antis get on the books justifies their paycheck from Big Pharm in helping to make their nicotine delivery system the only one politically correct, or legally available.
Home Issue	We've done the inside, outside, car, work and more... now you are not a good citizen if you don't agree to home bans! It doesn't matter if you own, or rent, or have a room in a nursing home, we will get our way. This is long past "safety" based on junk science, and all about MONEY.	This is my home, you can't do this.	Derr... what do you think I'm going to say next? Get rid of the ban! Stop it all. Don't let the Antis take your eye off the big picture by getting you stuck up to the neck in the muck of the little battles. Get rid of the whole Anti movement and the entire ban. Tell them you are still a free citizen and capable of making your own decisions about any and all legal products!
Tax Issue	We need more money. We are making less from the MSA now because less tobacco is being sold. Some states want to cut our funding, there has to be someone to tell the sheeple what to do! You are politically incorrect if you don't do as we tell you! Raise the taxes to continue our good work!	The few of us smokers in town are already paying for the roads that everyone gets to drive on. This isn't fair. Every citizen should pay equal taxes!	So do something about it. Highly paid people quit when they are not being paid. Cut off ALL funding to the Antis at your local and state level. Do not donate money to groups that fund Antis. Make Big Pharm support them alone so when the Antis realize there is money to be made off Big Pharm in court, it'll be too late, and they will eat their own masters.
Other Issues	Insert the insane claim and demand from the Antismoking Extremists of your choice here.	You can't do that.	So how's that approach there working out for you?
Tell your town, city, county, state, or country that you are sick of this. You fell for it, but don't need to continue to fall for it. For the sake of the children, protect the freedom to use your own good sense where any and all legal products are concerned and keep the world free from overpaid petty tyrants. What kind of world do you want to leave your children? Read the Newsletter, send it to friends, and open the eyes of everyone. No matter what you like, if it's tobacco, booze, scents, food, etc... your freedom of choice is in danger. Do not let your legacy for future generations be that of a slave society filled with sheeple afraid to stand for anything, and falling for everything.

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[Atlas Sneezed]

And just how do you feel about our First Lady being a smoker?

---

Fine, as long as I don't have to smell it on my patio.

[beezdotcom]

As addicts, maybe they're covered under the ADA (I had once heard that alcoholics, who are also "addicts" are covered in some ways), and could use the ADA laws to vacate both the amended bylaw and the court ruling.

NOW you're thinking like an activist judge! ;-)

[SheLion]

Fine, as long as I don't have to smell it on my patio.

LOL!!!!  I don't think you have to worry about THAT! hahahaha!

(Oh yes.  One more thing: I bet YOU have some habits that "I" would find disgusting.  yuk!!!

[Eric Blair 2084]

The house is unrented thanfully. It seems to get worse with every future tennant. With my luck, 6 al Qaeda operatives will move in there next and accidentally explode a bomb they were working on.

But at least Musta and Hani were non smokers.

[elkfersupper]

--- At what point will a majority decide it has the power to prohibit most ANYdamnthing, just because 'they don't like it'..

I don't like the idea that people may be availing themselves of "intimate" lubricants.

We need cameras surveiling every corner of every public and living space.

[Sunnyflorida]

'It never ceases to amaze me - especially here on FR - that people cannot understand the simple concept of freedom: freedom of association, freedom to run a business the way one wants, freedom to do whatever (legal) activities one wants to within ones home on the property they own and pay taxes on....."

Freedom to make laws....