Posted on 11/17/2006 10:46:11 AM PST by TheKidster
GOLDEN, Colo. -- A judge has upheld a homeowners association's order barring a couple from smoking in the town house they own.
Colleen and Rodger Sauve, both smokers, filed a lawsuit in March after their condominium association amended its bylaws last December to prohibit smoking.
"We argued that the HOA was not being reasonable in restricting smoking in our own unit, nowhere on the premises, not in the parking lot or on our patio," Colleen Sauve said. The Heritage Hills #1 Condominium Owners Association was responding to complaints from the Sauves' neighbors who said cigarette smoke was seeping into their units, representing a nuisance to others in the building.
In a Nov. 7 ruling, Jefferson County District Judge Lily Oeffler ruled the association can keep the couple from smoking in their own home.
Oeffler stated "smoke and/or smoke smell" is not contained to one area and that smoke smell "constitutes a nuisance." She noted that under condo declarations, nuisances are not allowed.
The couple now has to light up on the street in front of their condominium building.
"I think it's ridiculous. If there's another blizzard, I'm going to be having to stand out on the street, smoking a cigarette," said Colleen Suave.
For five years the couple has smoked in their living room and that had neighbors fuming.
"At times, it smells like someone is sitting in the room with you, smoking. So yes, it's very heavy," said condo owner Christine Shedron.
The Sauves said they have tried to seal their unit. One tenant spent thousands of dollars trying to minimize the odor.
"We got complaints and we felt like it was necessary to protect our tenants and our investment," said Shedron.
The Suaves said they would like to appeal the judge's ruling but are unsure if they have the money to continue fighting. They said what goes on behind their closed doors shouldn't be other people's business.
"I don't understand. If I was here and I was doing a lawful act in my home when they got here, why can they say, 'OK, now you have to change,'" said Colleen Suave. "We're not arguing the right to smoke as much as we're arguing the right to privacy in our home."
Other homeowners believe, as with loud music, that the rights of a community trump the rights of individual residents. The HOA is also concerned that tenants will sue those homeowners for exposure to second-hand smoke and this could be a liability issue.
The couple said that they would like to unload their condo and get out of the HOA entirely, but they are not sure if the real estate market is right.
THe liberty of other people to infringe on me is far more disturbing than a HOA.
The interesting thing is it is about smoking. Smokers defense of lilberty never takes into account the repellent nature of their smoke to other people.
You also might want to know that giving a rats ass about other people stops for me when they befoul my environment.
I just assume that people who live under HOA's figure they don't have enough laws, rules and regulations governing their lives, so they willingly take on more. I don't understand the urge, myself, but it's your choice.
You pay alot of money for a house and you don't want some jerk deciding to put his car up on cinderblocks, paint the house purple, let the weeds grow up two feet high and move in his 18 relatives who are needing a place to crash so they can park all their RV's in the front yard.
That is why there are HOA'a. Which are elected by the people who live in the building or neighborhood.
Zoning laws are the same thing. You don't want zoning, go live where there isn't any.
Anyway, were I, by some quirk of fate, the protagonist of this horror story, I would immediately sell my condo to some nice immigrant family for $1 and other valuable considerations, and move into a trailer park.
Better neighbors in a trailer park.
punctuation.
Personally, I detest HOAs. But complaining that HOAs infringe property rights is like saying that FreeRepublic infringes free speech.
What is your point?
Nobody has to buy a condo with a HOA. Even if I think it is a better deal, I am no obliged to buy into it.
I don't think there should be an option to opt out if one is a resident. When you buy the property, you opt in. HOA's would have no clout if opting out was the case. And if you buy into one, you expect it to do its job.
One can buy a property as nice as any without a HOA so there is no "forcing" here.
That is precisely my point.
TheKidster is the one who thinks people are "forced" into buying condos with HOAs.
(Not that FR is communist - JR is selling a service. I admire that.)
HOA powers to steal away your property are definitely leftist. It is as leftist as eminant domain abuse used by cities to increase tax revenue.
The difference is that people enter into HOAs willingly.
Eminant domain happens without prior consent, which means that there is no real comparison at all.
"They should just continue to smoke in their unit and make sure they are never caught red-handed"
That is exacly what I would do. Enough is enough..
I'm ok with that.
Yes, there are generally community zoning laws regarding these acts already. For the ones that are not so covered, I am still able to sue the offender in civil court for damages to my propery value caused by his actions. Assuming that a simple, neighborly request to clean up is fruitless, of course.
Zoning laws, however, are rarely targeted at individuals, and are much more subject to public scrutiny before enacted. The administrators of town laws are more beholden to their actions, having to stand for re-election to earn a living. As such, they tend to be much less capricious than HOA regulations, and be based on things like sanitary considerations, safety concerns, commercial/residential mix and occupant density.
Most HOAs seem to be more interested in maintaining rigid conformity to the tastes of some committee or developer than in doing things that effect property values. Some people like living in identical boxes painted one of three approved schemes, with their hobbies and vehicles carefully stowed out of sight behind garage doors and white curtain liners. I don't. It's an extra layer of constraint that I don't need in my life.
Americans were not meant to live close to their neighbors. :')
You assume wrong.
Some friends of mine live in a town in Florida that has no zoning laws.
It's a damn freak show and the value of their house hasn't risen along with the rest of Florida.
BS.
DING DING DING - We have a winner.
I remember some time back everyone here was up in arms about some guy getting in hot water with his HOA about his American Flag. I don't remember the details, it was either the size or the way he was displaying it and most people were screaming the HOA had no right to go after him.
I was just thinking about that. Around here most places have some restrictions. Those that don't, you don't want to live there anyway. I'm trying to by 10 acres out in the country. No mobiles. No houses under 1000 sq feet. No houses moved on or built with used material. The mobiles , if there was a size and age restriction would be ok with me but the rest is just reasonable IMO.
I'm thinking about "buying" too. :')
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