Posted on 11/17/2006 10:46:11 AM PST by TheKidster
GOLDEN, Colo. -- A judge has upheld a homeowners association's order barring a couple from smoking in the town house they own.
Colleen and Rodger Sauve, both smokers, filed a lawsuit in March after their condominium association amended its bylaws last December to prohibit smoking.
"We argued that the HOA was not being reasonable in restricting smoking in our own unit, nowhere on the premises, not in the parking lot or on our patio," Colleen Sauve said. The Heritage Hills #1 Condominium Owners Association was responding to complaints from the Sauves' neighbors who said cigarette smoke was seeping into their units, representing a nuisance to others in the building.
In a Nov. 7 ruling, Jefferson County District Judge Lily Oeffler ruled the association can keep the couple from smoking in their own home.
Oeffler stated "smoke and/or smoke smell" is not contained to one area and that smoke smell "constitutes a nuisance." She noted that under condo declarations, nuisances are not allowed.
The couple now has to light up on the street in front of their condominium building.
"I think it's ridiculous. If there's another blizzard, I'm going to be having to stand out on the street, smoking a cigarette," said Colleen Suave.
For five years the couple has smoked in their living room and that had neighbors fuming.
"At times, it smells like someone is sitting in the room with you, smoking. So yes, it's very heavy," said condo owner Christine Shedron.
The Sauves said they have tried to seal their unit. One tenant spent thousands of dollars trying to minimize the odor.
"We got complaints and we felt like it was necessary to protect our tenants and our investment," said Shedron.
The Suaves said they would like to appeal the judge's ruling but are unsure if they have the money to continue fighting. They said what goes on behind their closed doors shouldn't be other people's business.
"I don't understand. If I was here and I was doing a lawful act in my home when they got here, why can they say, 'OK, now you have to change,'" said Colleen Suave. "We're not arguing the right to smoke as much as we're arguing the right to privacy in our home."
Other homeowners believe, as with loud music, that the rights of a community trump the rights of individual residents. The HOA is also concerned that tenants will sue those homeowners for exposure to second-hand smoke and this could be a liability issue.
The couple said that they would like to unload their condo and get out of the HOA entirely, but they are not sure if the real estate market is right.
Rights to be signed away, money to be gained. The fact that you can call them voluntary is a real hoot.
That is your view of cigarettes,,mass hysteria?
Which is why I'd never live in an apartment if I can avoid it - college dorms were bad enough.
Lots of apartments and condos are "adult only" and do not allow children.
If you 'own' a condo you only control the inside areas. The association controls the 'common' areas. That includes vegetation, mail boxes, outside walls, roofing, common walls (presumably including ceilings and crawl spaces.) Smoking affects those common areas. Smoking in my apartment can be smelt by a nonsmoker in any apartment nearby not separated by open space.
They have zero grounds for complaining.
You argument applies to anyone buying into an HOA property, not just the smokers that bought in.
I lived in a neighborhood with a HOA that had teeth and loved it for twenty six years. I now live in another neighbood which has a HOA which has protected me from having the neighbor split his lot up and put a monstrosity blocking my view from my windows to our lake.
I have never had a bad experience and have been living under HOA'a for over thirty years.
I have seen a neighbor who had an eyesore with washing machines in the back yard and broken appliances, unpainted hourse, etc,,,taken to court and forced to clean up. I have seen another neighbor who had and RV sitting in the front yard for months forced to put it up.
When one makes a big investment in a house, it is like a crap shoot with neighbors. People open shops in houses, leave broken cars on the front yard, paint houses chartreuse and HOA'a deal with that.
If you don't want it, don't buy. But when I invest hundreds of thousands in a home, I don't want to have some rugged individualist deciding to open a metal working shop on site or a beauty parlow or have broken cars in the front yard.
Call me a snob, but I have never lost money on a house and have loved the HOAS
I'm not saying there should be no restrictions at all, especially if everyone agrees to them. What I find hard to swallow is that these HOA's have the power to steal people's property if they don't comply. I believe one is a huge fool to give that power to somebody and I'd never do it. What I find hypocritical in what you said is that you demand the right as a property owner to ensure those who own the property for ever after you must concede thier rights as a property owner in order to buy the property. Not only that but you are purposely making a strong effort to restrict the rights of others in order to turn a higher profit on the sale. So again, it seems as though you are all for property rights as long as it benefits your wallet, and screw everyone else.
Would you participate in a city plan using eminant domain so that you could acquire property from another private owner at a better price than what he is asking?
And what other forms of binding contracts between private citizens do you think the Government should move to invalidate?
Anyone who buys into an HOA and still wants to claim property rights is a fool. You knew the rules when you signed the contract. Suck it up (or, in this case, stop sucking it up) and move if your habit is that important to you. Next time understand what you are signing.
apparently these neighbors could smell cigarets.
I can smell cigarets if the neighbor next door lights up on his porch.
I agree about grandfathering but not about HOAs.
I have an HOA and it keeps neighbors from doing weird stuff like parking their massive motor home out in front of your house without moving it for weeks on end, or piling junk in front of their house.
Each owner signs an agreement that they will abide by the HOA rules. They also have a vote. If they want complete freedom from HOAs they should not move into an area that has one ... they should not sign an agreement that they will abide by the HOA rules.
That way they will not be asked to comply. But they won't be able to live within the parameters covered by the HOA. It's a contract. Honor it or don't sign it.
Again, I agree with the grandfathering.
She was forced to make a decision before the lease was up. She got a few month's notice.
If you love HOA's so much then by all means encourage them. That's the funny thing about personal liberty. There's no problem until your's is in jeoparday. People like yourself will sell everyone else down the river, especially if it makes life more convenient for you. You'll do it without a care and without any foresight, without any realization that if you sell me out, you're opening the door for others to infringe on your liberty.
Oh well, liberty was a nice idea while it lasted, I guess it's too inconvenient these days. you might have to actually give a rat's ass about other people
hahah Property rights in a Condo with a HOA.. hahaha you are funny.
If you were concerned about your property rights you wouldn't buy a house ANYWHERE with an HOA!
Nobody is stealing property. Where did you get that idea. They are setting the rules for the common enjoyment of property.
When you sell a property, say in a neighborhood with zoning restrictions, you sell it intact with those zoning restrictions. You cannot say put a business in a house in an area zoned for no business. That is not stealing.
When you buy farms, you can be sold the land without mineral rights. I know this. If you don't read the print you don't know that the mineral rights are owned by someone else.
As long as it's not against state law to smoke, the HOA is SOL. You had the same folks who populated student government, populating the HOA. Basically, losers, trying to inflict their values on everybody else.
Anyone believing an HOA is a plus, is in fantasyland or is basically another little Hitler who isn't happy unless they are controlling somebody else's life.
I wonder what the opinion would be if these folks were trying to fly the American flag?
Problem with this country is most people don't consider putting a bullet in a judge's head is worth the jail time. For that matter, hardly worth the lead and powder. Second problem is, they are absolutely correct.
Nothing like having an joining patio with a cigar smoker whose wife makes him go outside to the patio to smoke. Eeewwww! His cigars did stink.
The owner sets the price.
And we all notice Soothing Dave disappears. How sad! How sad for Soothing Dave that he is soothing but not moving.
Of course there is.
Let's take FR for example. I could type a response to you full of profanities and obscenities, which would be rude and unjustified. I am in my dwelling right now, and it is legal for me to do so.
However, it would effect you wherever you are and be a violation of the "community" rules in effect here. The OPINION that profanity is offensive is one that this community and its management has agreed is valid, and if I desire to participate in this community, I must abide by that opinion.
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