UCLA student stunned by Taser plans suit (now racial profiling)

LA Times ^ | 11/16/06 | Stuart Silverstein, Times Staff Writer

[EEDUDE]

"The guy sounds like a faggot..."


You might not agree with his opinion (neither do I), but that comment was uncalled for.

[EEDUDE]

Whoops!

After re reading the posts, I realized you were talking about the guy who was tazed!

Sorry!

Not enough coffee yet.

[freeangel]

Oh, please--in other stories Voter photo ID is blocked by activist judges. Can one really have it both ways?

[Godebert]

"I live in NYC "

That explains it. You must be one of those "Bloomberg" republicans.

[Godebert]

"This nation is a free all-you-can-eat- buffet for 3rd world rip off artists and Muslim scam artists"

Yup.....and we taxpayers are paying for their meal ticket.

[Mad Dawg]

Living in dial-up land as I do, I can't see the video so won't give an opinion on this use of the taser. But in general what you say is nonsense, I'm afraid.

Lying on the floor (whether "peaceably" or not - I'd love to see an aggressive or hostile lying on the floor) when given a lawful command (unless the command was to lie down) would be resisting.

The wimpy student was no match for the several police officers.Do you think it's better when it's a "fair fight" and more people get hurt and get hurt more seriously? The idea of overwhelming force is to reduce harm.

... clearly this act of violence threatens us all.

The use of the word "clearly" does not turn an assertion into an argument.

I think it might help if you told your story. As a former LEO I see tasers as life-saving tools. They give more refinement to the "use of force" continuum. Without a taser, there is the use of pain-compliance techniques, like holds and pressure points, the use of the baton, which can also be fatal when used in the real world. The baton ideally is used on soft tissue -- like triceps, gluteus maximus, and quadriceps -- but when the baton is out, the citizen doesn't always hold still, so the baton can land in unintended places. Oh yeah, there's also the gun.

For better or for worse, in New York City or LA, if you do not comply with a lawful order, you take a chance. Even if the order is unlawful, regrettably, noncompliance is risky. It is prudent, circumstances permitting, to weight the consequences of noncompliance and assess whether the principle involved is worth the risk. I'm sure that sometimes it is, but I'm not sure that I would go to the mat over being asked to show my ID.

Yes there are some bad cops in LA. There are some bad people who aren't cops there too. The world is littered with bad folks.

Now, that's my attempt at a rebuttal to the charge of excessive force. Would you care to articulate what you think the police SHOULD have done?

---

[Dudoight]

Will you please tell me what the police officers should have done when the kid refused to show ID then told them to F-off?

He had already obviously defied campus security officers who had asked the police to take over.

I don't know why the kid couldn't have just shown the ID or got up and left, acknowledgeing he either forgot it or didn't have one.

I watched the video, the kid was begging for this situation for whatever personal reason. The Taser's they used were obviously not all that strong, as the kid was not disabled in any way. You could still hear his foul mouth spewing.

I guess the police should have said...'well, okay, since you don't want to leave...just stay'.

You gotta be kidding?

[Dudoight]

"I'd say the police officer was the provocateur the moment he put his hand on the person who appeared to have been leaving the premises on his own accord."

The kid refused to leave.

[Mad Dawg]

post hoc, ergo propter hoc

You cite an article which says they're planning an autopsy as evidence that shows that he was killed by a taser? Instead of an autopsy they should have called you? This is not reasonable.

[Mad Dawg]

Let's see. First we get these strong and bitter words:

• blood lust.
• The LAPD has a history of violation of its power
• The culture of death has affected your judgment.
• Satan himself is smiling as he watches this sick video.
• Freak.
• You are obviously among those whose conscience has been dulled.
• a growing danger
• 156 deaths that have been caused by the use of Tazers.
• I also despise the growing hostility by our law enforcement officials and their tendency to cover up their crimes.
• an enemy of the people.
• Do you think a little civility from our public servants is too much to ask for?
• You deserve the government you will eventually get. Police state.
• barbaric.
• Your ignorance is stunning.

And THEN we get:

• Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause.
• Strong and bitter words indicate a lack of education.

Well, which one is your problem, lack of education or weak cause? Or can we have a third choice, somehow related to involving keyboard before engaging ratiocinative (I hope that's not too strong -- or bitter) process, as in:

It [the taser]should be used if at all as a last resort.

So FIRST we shoot them, THEN we can tase them? Oh, that's smart!

[THEUPMAN]

It is a shame that so few people here at FR see the problem. When it happens to them , when they are the victim of an over zealous LEO their minds will change.

When we give people guns and badges and the full power of the state , we also give them a greater responsibility . This responsibility is being abdicated more and more.

I have seen it more then once. Up close and personal.

It's not a good thing to insult or goad an officer, but an officer shouldn't let his ego rule him.


I have seen civilians use great restraint when being abused by smart mouth LEOs who where trying to evoke a response.

It's getting worse everyday.

[Mad Dawg]

When it happens to them , when they are the victim of an over zealous LEO their minds will change.

If every time there's a story about a cop, a bunch of folks come streaming out of the woodwork complaining about the coming police state, people will stop listening.

This is especially true is the complaints are vague, overstated, and irrelevant.

The guy disobeyed a legal order, reacted violently to a legal touch. He got tased. There is no brutality here, just good appropriate policing.

Another thing which gets in the way of your alarms being believed is that you and binnewhaatevershow no real understanding of policing. You try it, do some ride-alongs, realize that a badge is a good target for a bogey to aim at, live and deal with not knowing when a guy approaches you with a frown on his face whether he's going to ask for directions or pull a knife and attack you, with knowing that you don't know and that you may find out too late to prevent getting hurt or killed.

And as for biinejerk's "poor little police man - did he get his feelings hurt?" I am no longer a cop. If you want to say that to me face to face without hiding behind your computer, freepmail me, and I'll set up the meeting. Now that I'm no longer wearing a badge, I'll be happy to comp you some brutality as an amateur.

But to tell you the truth, I'd prefer to see you do what police do and then think about the nonsense you've been spouting.

[Dave S]

Moral of story. Cops ask you for your ID, present it and keep your mouth shut. Screaming about the Patriot Act and going limp is not going to endear you to the police.

[Dave S]

Just listen to the tape, before the kid gets tazed he's bitchin about a police state.

Well, actually he was tasered the first time prior to the beginning of the recording. But it certainly doesnt help to start screaming about the patriot act when all you have to do is present your ID and follow their instructions to leave.

[RobRoy]

Although I agree with pretty much everything in your thread I do not think it applies in this particular case.

[Syllojism]

Tasers are the coming wave in pain compliance. Why? Because they have no lasting effects. The minute the taser quits the person is back to normal.

Tasers are meant to incapacitate a violent person. It is a device designed to make sure you can't get up. Using it to make someone get up is idiotic. What part of this don't you understand?

[Mad Dawg]

What part of this don't you understand?The part that isn't true? Sure youcan't get up during the energy discharge, but you can get up as soon as the energy discharge stops. The taser only incapacitates while the energy is messing up the nerve signals to muscles.

[Binstence]

You are mistaking my powerful and effective use of words for strong and bitter.
I must say though you are as good as they are on the left at taking words out of context to bend their meaning toward your bias.

[Binstence]

Oh, no! Imagine the dreaded "refusing to show ID" and mouthing off! Surely he should hang. Oooooooo defiance! You are giving credence to the rumors that some conservatives are easily controlled masses.