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Libertarians: Chirping Sectaries
David O. McKay Library, Brigham Young University ^ | 11-09-06 | Russell Kirk

Posted on 11/09/2006 1:18:32 PM PST by Keltik

[Final two pharagraphs]

So in the nature of things conservatives and libertarians can conclude no friendly pact. Conservatives have no intention of compromising with socialists; but even such an alliance, ridiculous though it would be, is more nearly conceivable than the coalition of conservatives and libertarians. The socialists at least declare the existence of some sort of moral order; the libertarians are quite bottomless.

It is of high importance, indeed, that American conservatives dissociate themselves altogether from the little sour remnant called libertarians. In a time requiring long views and self-denial, alliance with a faction founded upon doctrinaire selfishness would be absurd-and practically damaging. It is not merely that cooperation with a tiny chirping sect would be valueless politically; more, such an association would tend to discredit the conservatives, giving aid and comfort to the collective adversaries of ordered freedom. When heaven and earth have passed away, perhaps the conservative mind and the libertarian mind may be joined in synthesis-but not until then. Meanwhile, I venture to predict, the more intelligent and conscientious persons within the libertarian remnant will tend to settle for politics as the art of the possible, so shifting into the conservative camp.

(Excerpt) Read more at emp.byui.edu ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism
KEYWORDS: antilibertarianism; conservatism; libertarianizethegop; principles; sourgrapes
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1 posted on 11/09/2006 1:18:35 PM PST by Keltik
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To: Keltik

What tedious writing. He has invested far too much energy into trying to sound high minded.


2 posted on 11/09/2006 1:21:34 PM PST by T.Smith
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To: T.Smith

Ezra Taft Benson was a much better writter and speaker


3 posted on 11/09/2006 1:23:30 PM PST by Domandred
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To: Keltik
The socialists at least declare the existence of some sort of moral order; the libertarians are quite bottomless.

This doesn't have a direct effect on me, but OUCH!

4 posted on 11/09/2006 1:23:38 PM PST by edpc (Violence is ALWAYS a solution. Maybe not the right one....but a solution nonetheless)
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To: traviskicks

"So in the nature of things conservatives and libertarians can conclude no friendly pact"

And, it's all your fault, travis! (:^0)


5 posted on 11/09/2006 1:27:24 PM PST by 383rr (Those who choose security over liberty deserve neither- GUN CONTROL=SLAVERY)
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To: Keltik

This guy is flat out wrong. He's right about people who are members of the Libertarian Party, but people with Libertarian ideals have LONG been one of the key groups within our movement. Much of the Goldwater coalition was comprised of Conservatives with Libertarian leanings. If we purge all Libertarian ideals from the Conservative movement, we become a Religious Party and not a Political Movement.


6 posted on 11/09/2006 1:27:48 PM PST by MarkDel
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To: edpc

obviously the writer doesnt know libertarians to say they have bottomless morals. damn republicans are just looking for whipping boys because they couldnt get thier base out when truth is many liberatarians voted R including myself


7 posted on 11/09/2006 1:27:56 PM PST by Kewlhand`tek (Those that can't , Teach. Those that can't teach , Report)
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To: Keltik

You're a bitter, bitter person, aren't you? Is libertarian bashing the only thing you do on FR these days?


8 posted on 11/09/2006 1:29:24 PM PST by Hemingway's Ghost (Spirit of '75)
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To: edpc

It would hurt indeed, if it were true.

But it's not.

And frankly, this Libertarian is damn tired of being called names.

If Libertarians are so powerful as to give an election away, if Republicans need us so much, perhaps a more fruitful tactic would be trying to find common ground, instead of insulting us and then wondering why we don't want to hang with y'all.


9 posted on 11/09/2006 1:29:59 PM PST by Xenalyte (Viva España!)
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To: Kewlhand`tek
There may have been a few races here and there decided by third party voters. In the end, however, mostly Republicans who abandoned conservative priciples took a beating.

BTW.....

I thought it was "Those that can't teach.....teach gym."

10 posted on 11/09/2006 1:32:34 PM PST by edpc (Violence is ALWAYS a solution. Maybe not the right one....but a solution nonetheless)
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To: Keltik
He rips on Mill but certainly can't match his writing.

"[A] State which dwarfs its men, in order that they may be more docile instruments in its hands even for beneficial purposes, will find that with small men no great thing can really be accomplished; and that the perfection of machinery to which it has sacrificed everything, will in the end avail it nothing, for want of the vital power which, in order that the machine might work more smoothly, it has preferred to banish." --John Stuart Mill, last paragraph in "On Liberty"

11 posted on 11/09/2006 1:32:58 PM PST by AdamSelene235 (Truth has become so rare and precious she is always attended to by a bodyguard of lies.)
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To: Xenalyte
And frankly, this Libertarian is damn tired of being called names. If Libertarians are so powerful as to give an election away, if Republicans need us so much, perhaps a more fruitful tactic would be trying to find common ground, instead of insulting us and then wondering why we don't want to hang with y'all.

I agree. I brought up this point yesterday on other threads.

12 posted on 11/09/2006 1:34:08 PM PST by beltfed308 (Democrats :Tough on Taxpayers, Soft on Terrorism)
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To: Keltik
So, you are either an Authoritarian, or a Libertarian. You feel entitled to Authority over everyone else's life, or you realize this Country was founded upon the notion of Individual Liberty and Freedom.

Also, objectivism/libertarianism is hardly "bottomless". It has definite boundaries drawn quite sharply around it via the equal Rights of other individuals and the non-initiation of force/fraud/theft doctrine.

Pompous a-hole authors opinions notwithstanding...

13 posted on 11/09/2006 1:34:47 PM PST by Dead Corpse (Anyone who needs to be persuaded to be free, doesn't deserve to be.)
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To: Keltik

Pure pathetic. Not least because the author is speaking about fundamentalists whenever he says "conservatives". If the GOP decides it can win elections with nothing but fundamentalist voters, it's got a really rude awakening on the way - even ruder than the one two days ago....


14 posted on 11/09/2006 1:34:53 PM PST by AntiGuv (o) ? (o)
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To: Keltik
The libertarian takes the state for the great oppressor. But the conservative finds that the state is ordained of God.

Sounds kind of familiar.
15 posted on 11/09/2006 1:35:01 PM PST by microgood
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To: Xenalyte
If Libertarians are so powerful as to give an election away, if Republicans need us so much, perhaps a more fruitful tactic would be trying to find common ground, instead of insulting us and then wondering why we don't want to hang with y'all.

Every day on FR other than the day after an election:
"Ha! Libertarians! You clowns can't muster up more than 2% of any vote! What a joke of a party!"

FR after the 2006 election:
"You a-hole Libertarians cost us the election!"

Either we're so few we can be marginalized, or we're so many we can turn the tide of elections nation-wide. Which is it, Libertarian bashers? Because it can't be both. What a bunch of idiots.


16 posted on 11/09/2006 1:35:29 PM PST by Hemingway's Ghost (Spirit of '75)
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To: Keltik
The socialists at least declare the existence of some sort of moral order; the libertarians are quite bottomless.

I think that the Libertarians are quite clear about their moral order - human beings are not chattel for the government or other people do use as they please.

In a time requiring long views and self-denial, alliance with a faction founded upon doctrinaire selfishness would be absurd-and practically damaging.

Odd using the term "self-denial". Only the libertarian ideal could delayed gratification be considered self-denial. The statist beliefs of the other parties would be best described as "other-denial" - i.e. you can't have that because I'm in charge.

collective adversaries of ordered freedom

"Ordered Freedom"? The author just sprained my Orwell-to-English dictionary.

17 posted on 11/09/2006 1:36:29 PM PST by KarlInOhio (Hey Kerry, What part of showing heels and ass is a winning strategy in Iraq?)
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To: Keltik

He's correct about a lot of this, but writes far too much out of emotion, with a desire to cut and wound, rather than to persuade and inspire. An ideology is going to be useful and true in some circumstances and unworkable and excessive in others. It would have been better to see the good and bad points and the limits of libertarianism, rather than simply condemn it in unqualified terms.


18 posted on 11/09/2006 1:36:32 PM PST by x
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To: beltfed308

I wonder why this didn't work?

"You liberaltarians and losertarians and libertines suck! But you'd better vote Republican, because if you don't, we'll . . . uh . . . well, you just don't want to see what we'll do!"


19 posted on 11/09/2006 1:36:33 PM PST by Xenalyte (Viva España!)
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To: Keltik
Not done whining yet, I see.

Sorry, you're not getting your flame war.

20 posted on 11/09/2006 1:36:41 PM PST by tacticalogic ("Oh bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered his last round.)
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