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Posted on 11/07/2006 5:04:59 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki
Chinese J-11B Presages Quiet Military Revolution
By Douglas Barrie
11/05/2006 09:17:03 PM
POWER PLAY
China is in the midst of a critical period of testing an "indigenous" version of the Russian Su-27 Flanker, known as the J-11B, with propulsion, radar and weapons system integration underway.
The effort is emblematic of Beijing's efforts to recast its capabilities for the 21st century as its military and associated defense-aerospace sector undergoes its own revolution in military affairs.
The development of the J-11B, if successful, will mark a notable change in capability--not only for key elements of the country's defense industrial base, but also for the People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF).
The Chinese military is recalibrating the balance of quantity and quality in favor of the latter, as a guarantor of a decisive military edge and the ability to project power regionally. At the same time, the nature of the relationship between Beijing and Moscow may be subtly changing, reflecting China's growing confidence in its own capabilities.
Alongside key elements on the J-11B, Chinese industry is beginning to produce a gamut of capable guided weapons, both tactical and strategic, including satellite-guided precision systems. The emergence of unmanned platforms is also gaining the attention of Beijing.
The nationally developed systems now in various stages of the J-11B test program potentially provide performance improvements over the various Su-27 models now in PLAAF service.
Air Show China, held here Oct. 31-Nov. 5, included the first official detail about the Shenyang Tai Hang engine. This turbofan powerplant is being developed for the Flanker, and is also sometimes referred to as the WS-10A. A handful of J-11B airframes are now likely being used for development testing, including at least one J-11B engine-integration aircraft.
Beijing and Moscow first agreed on the Flanker sale in 1991, with a license production contract signed in 1996. The Flanker has given China its most capable fighter aircraft while also providing a vehicle for its industry to gain knowledge of fourth-generation fighter manufacturing. The first kit-built J-11A was completed in 1998. The J-11A still uses Russian engines, radar and weaponry.
Design and development of the Tai Hang has been underway for nearly two decades, says one senior Chinese aero-engine executive. He admits the program has proved challenging: "We hit difficulties in developing the engine."
Chinese industry executives attending the show remain reticent to discuss the J-11B program. The executive would say only that the Tai Hang has "similar applications to the Al-31 [the present Su-27 engine]. It's of a similar thrust and is of the same technology generation." The J-11B program also includes the integration of Chinese-developed planar array pulse-Doppler radar replacing the Russian N-001 cassegrain radar, at least two versions of which are fielded by the PLAAF. An image of a J-11B, still in its primer (see top photo on p. 27), appears to show the aircraft fitted with a different radome to the basic Su-27. Given the available space for a flat-plate antenna, this would offer a performance improvement over the N-0001.
Also associated with the J-11B is the Luoyang PL-12 active radar-guided medium-range air-to-air missile. While the Chinese air force already has the Russian R-77 (AA-12 Adder) in service with the Su-27, the PL-12 offers a big performance increase over the present export standard of the Vympel R-77. Officials from the company were unable to discuss the PL-12 project.
The initial development test-firing program for the overall PL-12 program now appears complete, with the missile at least close to service entry. It was integrated first on the J-8II for the development program. Trials of the PL-12 on the Chengdu J-10 also have been carried out.
The PL-12 does benefit from Russian technology, with the seeker and inertial guidance system provided by Moscow. A variant of the Agat 9B-1103M radar seeker is the most likely candidate for the missile. This seeker was intended initially for an improved version of the R-77, but appears to have been sold to China first.
The PLAAF currently has the capability for two-target engagement using the Su-27, R-77 combination. Successful integration of the PL-12 on the J-11B would likely provide a genuine multitarget capability and give the PLAAF a more capable air superiority aircraft.
The country is also moving to fill gaps in its tactical weapons capability, and to bolster its ability to support combat aircraft export proposals with credible guided-weapons packages. The show included the presentation of several previously unseen air-launched tactical systems. Luoyang showed the LT-2 laser-guided bomb, along with the LS-6 precision-guided glide bomb (middle photo). Rival China Aerospace and Technology Corp. unveiled its FT-1 and FT-3 satellite-guided weapons family. Both are aimed at potential exports of the FC-1 light fighter, including Pakistan, and likely national requirements.
Meanwhile, China Aerospace Science and Industry Corp. (Casic) showed the C-704 antiship missile (bottom photo), along with the C-802KD air-to-surface version of the C-802 antiship weapon.
The LT-2 has been in service with the Chinese air force "for more than three years," says a Luoyang executive. The 500-kg.-class (1,100-lb.) weapon resembles the Russian KAB family. The official suggested that the laser-guided bomb has a range of up to 20 km. (12.4 mi.) from high altitude, with an average accuracy of about 2 meters (6.5 ft.).
The LS-6 appears, in effect, a successor system, with a family of weapons planned. The official says "about a dozen" launch tests of the LS-6 precision bomb kit have been carried out using a Shenyang J-8II as the test aircraft. The program was begun in 2003, with testing now complete.
He identifies the JF-17--the Pakistan air force designation for the Chengdu FC-1 now in development--as the next intended aircraft for integration of the weapon. Guidance is provided by an inertial package coupled with satellite navigation. The official says the weapons family will be capable of using three systems--the U.S. GPS, the Russian Glonass and China's own Beidou system. The architecture for this system eventually foresees using five satellites in geosynchronous orbit (GEO) and up to 30 non-GEO platforms.
The 500-kg. LS-6 has a maximum launch range of 60 km. from medium altitude. A 1,000-kg. kit has also been considered, although this requires a larger wing. A 250-kg. variant is in the pipeline as well. Also under study is the addition of a laser seeker.
The two weapons shown by Casic cover the 250-kg. and 500-kg. class. The FT-1 bears a resemblance to the U.S. Joint Direct Attack Munition. Development began in 2001, according to a company executive. Tests have been carried out from a Xian JH-7. Range of the FT-1 is given as up to 18 km., depending on the release altitude and aircraft speed, with an accuracy of "30 meters, or less." Casic subsidiary China National Precision Machinery Import & Export Corp. is responsible for the C-704. At least a small batch of the antiship missile has been produced.
The design is strongly reminiscent of the Hongdu JJ/TL-6 antiship missile, although dimensions and performance figures for the two vary slightly. Data provided for the C-704 give the monopulse active-radar-guided missile a maximum engagement range of 35 km.
The company is also offering a further variant of its C-802 antiship missile. The air-launched C-802KD is claimed to be capable of engaging ships in harbor or some fixed land targets. Given that the missile is fitted with a radar seeker only, land targets would need to provide a high radar contrast.
An electro-optically guided medium-size air-launched weapon in a similar class to the C-802 is under development in China. This program almost certainly corresponds to the KD-88 designation.
The first indications of a measured shift in Sino-Russian relations could be detected in the outcome of the ongoing "push and shove" between Beijing and Moscow over the provision of a Russian engine for the FC-1 light fighter. The aircraft is a joint development between China and Pakistan.
Chinese and Russian aerospace executives are maintaining China's FC-1 light fighter will be provided to Pakistan with a Russian engine, though this is still pending political approval from Moscow. The Russian government has yet to approve the release, with suggestions that Moscow might nix a deal to avoid jeopardizing sales to India.
Not to mention the zillions of Wal-Mart dollars.
Wal-Mart is a huge part of the reason China is not the threat it could be.
China's economy is dependant upon our own. Indeed, all it's savings are in U.S. Treasuries.
A serious attack on us would not only cripple their economy, it would piss away all they have saved.
Agreed. But they wanted the pilots to feel good about the plane...and to keep esprit de corps up, since it was an elite aircraft...just not a fighter...
Which should never be put at risk in conventional situations, as far as I'm concerned. These are the ace-in-the hole, last-ditch retaliatory means against nuclear attack. They shouldn't be squandered in that way. Nor should their operational capability be compromised by too frequent an opportunity for the enemy defenses to have to be tested and fine-tuned against such.
The F-117 was not intended to be the heavy bomber. It was always the first in to soften up the defenses. Once the fleet of F-117 s amd those "two-bombs" apiece did their thing...opening a clear path...then we can send in the "trucks".
You know that. And to decommission the F-117s with trouble brewing in Big China...is the precisely Wrong Thing to be doing.
As I said before. We need Numbers.
See above. Numbers count. And as far as the F-35, it is too short-ranged. So back to that again. It is way shorter distance range than the F-22. Particularly carrying heavy ordnance.
The Naval UCAS will be coming along,
Says you. It won't provide the air superiority. Nor will the F-35. The supersonic ship-attack missiles will be launched outside their range. Hence, we need the navalized F-22. This was the capability that the F-14/Phoenix gave us before...that is now retired without any replacement capability as the Threat Gathers.
and the AF will have the option of picking a few up.
Sigh. Dream on. The engineers at Boeing and Lockheed say flat out...don't bank on the UCAVs. They aren't supersonic. They aren't reliable in all weather. They aren't autonomous. They can be neutralized by a determined enemy with numbers of low-tech fighters, willing to use EMP devices. The UCAVs on CAP will drop like flies. And BEFORE you put up the argument that the F-22 is equally vulnerable to such a drastic attack...it has a couple more things going for it. It can be safely out of range of tactical EMP devices...and with supercruise swoop in on enemy bogies or supersonic cruise missiles. And unlike the UCAVs, after exhaustion of the payload bay of missiles, it can field its gun against the swarm of low-tech fighters that might follow in waves after the precursor attack...
The UCAVs..even with a gun pod... would be too slow to engage at the speeds typical of a Mig 21...let alone the Su-33s and Mig 29s.
And the next generation, is to water the eyes...
There is no next generation since we aren't even willing to fund the generation that we should be having right now. And btw, you go to war with what you have now. Not pie in the sky. This was the major mistakes of both Cheney and Rumsfeld. The Perfect becoming the enemy of the Good.
We also need to put back into practice the sage observations of President Thomas Jefferson, who said:
We confide in our strength without boasting of it; and we respect that of our enemies without fearing it.
Thomas Jefferson, 1793.
The attached incident should also prove a somber reminder of the perils of our smugness...and not just generally...but to wit, China:
Chinese Submarine Successfully Stalks U.S. Carrier Force Undetected
Navalized F-22 won't hunt. Too big for the carrier deck.
There is a 30 character equation on aircraft spotting factor. F-18c counts as "1.0". F-22 is about 2.4 on that scale.
bookmark
the F-14 managed to fly off carriers for decades, and it was massive.
Actually, its about the same weight as the F-14...
Guess it will hunt just fine.
Uh, spotting is a visual term. Visual size for a "stealth" aircraft are not the key factor.
Spotting factor is a technical term that concerns how much space on a carrier deck is consumed.
2.4 would mean that you give up 24 F-18s for 10 F-22s.
Someone needs to do some homework.
Do you know what the range of the F-117 is/was?
Gosh, do a little homework....
http://ocw.mit.edu/NR/rdonlyres/Aeronautics-and-Astronautics/16-885JFall-2004/1ABA501E-4F31-4EEE-AEEB-123274492635/0/flight_controls_1.pdf
Look down to page 9.
To help your education.
Getting better, still not in our weight class. Note in the article this is presented as a pure domestic product, when actually it is final assembly of parts many key ones still supplied by Russia. Also note the comment in the article about the engine - Chinese has not yet fielded any modern jet engine produced domestically. This will be a first if it is. It is significant for that reason - it catches them up to Russian c 1980s or us c 1970s.
Democrats are currently selling the plans to the raptor no doubt.. or they will be in a few months..
No argument there. And it would be a good trade.
Someone needs to do some homework.
Flush the attitude. Your point is not pertinent to the issues at stake.
And btw, we nearly didn't even get Rumsfeld to sign off on the F-18 E/F...which is a mere "plug the gap" filler until a real air superiority option comes along. He was all set to have NO new carrier fighters at all.
someone signed off on f-18e/f. We are in full production here.
Most air forces: 95% hamburger, 5% dangerous.
US, NATO, Austrailia, Japan, and Israel are unusual, in that 80% and up are dangerous.
South Korea, Taiwan, and India are, in my uninformed estimation, in the second tier. Say 50% dangerous.
the rest: see first line.
North Vietnam had one fellow who was darned dangerous. The above isn't to say that those guys aren't there. It is to say that there are not very many of them.
And it takes a lot more time to get a trained air force than a trained pilot. Knowing how to use those pilots can only start after you have them.
In WWII it took 3 years for the US to figure out targeting. It took 7 years in Vietnam.
More attitude. Sigh. So you think we should never have deployed it? Get real. Neither should we be prematurely retiring any superior capabilities when numbers may be vital.
Anyrate here are the stats:
F-117A Combat range: 1112 km with max load
P.S. ...the F-35 is, currently, for all practical purposes, a non-existent aircraft. The maiden voyage of F-35 hasn't begun, so it should be impossible to know the "real" performance or combat radius.
So, considering the touted "on paper" projected ranges for it we see:
The performance or strike radius of JSF family should be just the "minimal requirement" from USAF (600 NM+ for F-35A), USN (700 NM+ for F-35C), and Marine (450 NM, for F-35B) not the actual one ~
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